Dial the Gate is privileged to sit down with two of Stargate Atlantis’s finest, and a couple of fan favorites! Torri Higginson and Rachel Luttrell are going to catch us up on their careers and reflect on (nearly) twenty years of Stargate memories.

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
00:34 – Opening Credits
01:05 – Welcome
01:20 – Guest Introduction
06:11 – Torri Higginson Taking Over for Jessica Steen
09:20 – Rachel Raising Young Talent
13:15 – Action Women
14:41 – James “BAMBAM” Bamford
15:29 – Teyla Became an Action Badass
17:14 – Characters Evolve
18:03 – Going from Aiden Ford to Ronon Dex
21:03 – “At any moment I could be let go.”
22:52 – “Sunday” and the Death of Carson
27:40 – Torri and Rachel Share a Memory of Each Other
31:07 – Weir and Teyla Were Friends
33:10 – “38 Minutes” and Ben Cotton as Kavanagh
33:50 – Stepping onto the Set for the First Time
34:46 – Contract Duration
37:53 – The State of the industry
42:10 – Auditioning by Tape
46:50 – Zoom Auditions
49:52 – Grouse Grind
51:02 – “Teylabeth” Week!
52:37 – Rachel as the Wraith Queen in Season Six
54:49 – David Ogden Stiers
56:30 – Torri and Cameo
1:00:33 – Thank you both!
1:01:57 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
1:02:26 – End Credits

***

“Stargate” and all related materials are owned by MGM Studios and MGM Television.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello everyone. Welcome to Episode 258 of Dial the Gate. The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. Thank you so much for joining me in this hour. I have really been looking forward to this one. Two Stargate titans are joining us for this episode. Torri Higginson, Dr. Elizabeth Weir of Stargate Atlantis. And Rachel Luttrell, Teyla Emmagan, also of Stargate Atlantis. Thank you both for coming back and being with me.

Rachel Luttrell:
Our pleasure.

Torri Higginson:
Absolute pleasure. Always.

David Read:
It’s great to have you guys. Torri, what’s going on in your world. Where are you?

Torri Higginson:
I’m back in California right now which has been great. Because the last nine years I’ve been working up in Montreal which is weird because it’s been at five different shows, but they’ve all taken place in Montreal. So, I kind of fell in love with that city but also, I hadn’t had a summer in California for nine years. My fingers are filthy. I’m just gardening. I’m going back after this to do some more gardening and I’m feeling really happy about that.

David Read:
What are you planting? Are you doing vegetables? Are you doing flowers? What are you doing?

Torri Higginson:
I’m doing mostly vegetables. I’ve got tomatoes and kale and eggplant and artichokes and asparagus, and today I’m putting in some courgettes and some herbs and chives and some thyme.

Rachel Luttrell:
That’s amazing.

Torri Higginson:
It makes me so happy.

David Read:
I don’t have a green thumb to save my life. Rachel, do you?

Rachel Luttrell:
I do. My mom has the most amazing green thumb, and I think I inherited it from her because I don’t really try and yet plants seem to be happy around [me]. I have a garden… I know, exactly, and I don’t… Anyway… I do have a garden in the backyard but it’s not like yours, Torri. We have an acre and a half of land here and so goodness knows I could be putting it to better use. But we do have… We’ve got [sage].

Torri Higginson:
We’ve got a pony. Sorry. That’s space for a pony.

Rachel Luttrell:
We can’t have a pony here. I know. We can’t. We’re not zoned for a pony. Or chickens. We can’t. I know.

David Read:
HOA?

Rachel Luttrell:
HOA.

David Read:
I know the world. You’re in Atlanta, right?

Rachel Luttrell:
We’re just outside. We’re, like, 25 minutes outside of Atlanta, and there are… Listen, just half a mile down the road people have cattle and horses. It just depends on your little neighborhood. And ours, we can’t have a pony. Otherwise, I’d love that. But I do have sage, and I’ve got rosemary and mint, which, you know… Mint just grows like a weed. And I harvested some potatoes the other day.

Torri Higginson:
[Potatoes are] the best.

Rachel Luttrell:
You know what? Here’s the thing that I’m doing. And Torri, you’re probably, like, “D’oh, Rachel.” But I’ve started composting, which they don’t really do here in Georgia. I mean, in Toronto you have to compost. You’ve been in Canada. Here, the majority of people kind of just toss everything away. And I decided about a year ago that I didn’t wanna be a part of that. I didn’t wanna be… It’s just… Right? Anyway, so I’ve been composting and at first, I thought it was gonna be so hard and it was gonna stink up my backyard. And it’s magical. I’m so amazed by the process of it. I just have a wooden box outside, and we put everything out there, except for… We don’t put anything animal-based out there. Anyway, I’m boring everybody.

David Read:
No.

Rachel Luttrell:
[inaudible]

Torri Higginson:
No, not at all. But it is work, though, right? It’s not completely… It’s work. I remember when I first started compost here, I thought, “Oh, I just throw everything in this thing, and it just does it.” It’s, like, “Oh,” you gotta turn it, you gotta add water.”

David Read:
It’s a process.

Rachel Luttrell:
I’m not adding water, though. I’m not doing any of that. I’m turning it every once in a while, and even so, it’s amazing. It’s just this incredible ecosystem, and the soil that comes out of it. Anyway, it’s so wonderful.

David Read:
I grew up…My parents…

Torri Higginson:
I love [inaudible]

David Read:
My parents are gonna kill me. I grew up in the middle of nowhere, and out thing that we would throw on the back lawn would be eggshells and banana peels.

Rachel Luttrell:
[inaudible]

David Read:
I suppose that’s composting.

Torri Higginson:
That’s composting.

Rachel Luttrell:
Yes, sure it is.

Torri Higginson:
Minimalist composting.

Rachel Luttrell:
There it is. Exactly. Anyway, I harvested some potatoes the other day, and they weren’t as good as I would have liked them to be. They were just not as flavorful and I’m not… Maybe, I picked them too soon. Sorry, this is so damn boring.

David Read:
No!

Rachel Luttrell:
Potatoes.

David Read:
We wanna…

Torri Higginson:
Surely, it’s the only thing I care about.

David Read:
90 percent of the folks in the audience are wanting to just spend time with you, guys. The other 10 percent, they’re bringing their Atlantis questions. Paul Brickler, “For Torri. I’m sure this has been asked before,” but we wanted to ask… And I’m curious to know. A couple of questions at this point in your journey as an actor… I’m curious to see how you respond to a couple of these. Paul Brickler, “Was it weird taking over a role from a previous actor?” It says, “It was for me as a fan for, like, 10 minutes, and then I personally realized it was an upgrade.” So, the Torri Higginson Dr. Weir model. Model is the wrong word. Just forget I said that. The replicator models.

Torri Higginson:
The replicator models. It’s funny because I sort of forget that. I don’t think about that because it was… I did her for three years and just sort of thought about who I was doing, what I was doing. I think at the moment, I have answered it before, so I apologize for replication, but initially it made me more nervous because I was cast before I knew that. And when I found that after, I thought, “Should I be looking at what this person did and making sure I don’t make the same choices? Or should I be looking at what they did and maybe bring in some of their choices?” And I remember speaking to Brad, saying, “I wanna know everything about this character so I wanna watch that episode just to get more information about her but I’m worried that might change my feelings towards what I brought into her.” And Brad was great. He just said, “What you brought into the audition is why you’re cast. So, trust your instinct and watch it [or] don’t watch it. It’s up to you.” And I did watch it in the end, and I know her as an actor. She’s a great actor.

David Read:
I think you guys share an agent.

Torri Higginson:
I think we do. Or we did at one point. I think, too, what’s also always saved me as an actor in this business is, I’ve always believed you can never take it personally if you get cast over somebody else, or somebody else gets cast over you. You can’t take it personally. It’s not even apples and oranges. There’s a million different types of apples. Everybody is bringing something so different, and so unique. And if they go a different way, that’s because the producer [or] the director resonated with that tartness of Granny Smith. And you’re coming with a Honeycrisp. It’s so different. So, I think that’s always saved me so I can’t be… You don’t take it personally.

David Read:
Rachel, can you speak to that at all?

Rachel Luttrell:
About? Stepping into…

David Read:
How subjective casting is, and you have to accept the fact that if you’re not selected for this thing, even though it’s something that you really wanted, they just go in a different direction. And sometimes it’s you and your interpretation [that] gets it.

Rachel Luttrell:
You kind of have to make peace with that as an actor. That’s just something you’re constantly dealing with. I remember way back in the day when we would all have to show up for auditions and we’d be sitting in a room and there would be that version of me with long hair, and that version of me with… You know what I mean. Different versions of the same thing and I remember how stressful that could be. But at the same time how very, very different, as Torri said, we all are. We’re just… I love the whole apples versus apples versus apples. Very different. And I tell that to my daughter and my son now all the time as well.

David Read:
Is Caden working too? Is he pursuing it?

Rachel Luttrell:
Caden’s interested, for now. He’s interested. We’ll see. We’ll see where that goes. And he has done some things and he’s quite talented.

David Read:
I wonder why.

Rachel Luttrell:
And he’s doing voice stuff as well and he’s just…

Torri Higginson:
Cool.

Rachel Luttrell:
Yes. And his voices… I would play them now, but I would embarrass the heck out of him. But they’re fantastic. They’re just fantastic. So, anyway…

David Read:
Considering his background, I would think that he could pursue something, with interest, in video game work, if nothing else. Voice work for video games.

Rachel Luttrell:
Absolutely. I just tread cautiously in this world with my kids, and I let them… As long as they are enjoying the process, as long as it’s something that brings them joy then we’ll continue to do it. But once we get to a place, if we ever get to that place, maybe we won’t, where it’s stressful or it fills them with anxiety, and there’s that comparison thing or what have you, then we will stop doing it. But for now…

David Read:
What about…

Torri Higginson:
Aim is joy.

David Read:
Absolutely. What about Ridley? And how is she… How do you navigate with a daughter, with the amount of anxiety that this business can bring about? And with social media and everything else, how do you look at helping her navigate her challenges in this world versus the world that we all grew up in, 80s and 90s, with what kind of difficulties that auditioning and accessing the industry had in that time frame. It’s gotta be very different.

Rachel Luttrell:
Yes, it is. These days we’re putting everything on tape. These days the competition is, I guess, that much more diverse and widespread, and they’re seeing so many more people, so it’s different. But it’s the world that she knows and understands, and as I was just saying, we make it about having fun in the moment and then we forget it. We just forget it. And that’s just always been what I’ve tried to instill in my little one. And she does. And she does that, actually, really, really well. Better than I do. She had a slew of auditions last weekend and then we just let it go. She doesn’t even talk about it. It’s just, like, “OK, we did it and it was fun.”

David Read:
So, she’s not hanging on? “If we get it, we get it.”

Rachel Luttrell:
Yeah. Because in the early stages of my career, that really got me and made me feel really awful, small etc. All that kind of stuff. And it can really get into your head and so I’ve just made a conscious effort to make sure that she knows that you do your work in the room, you have fun with it, you play, and then you let it be. Because you don’t know. As Torri said, you’ve no idea why they’re making the choices that they’re making. But she’s like Caden. Wonderfully talented, incredibly creative, and she’s had a lot of opportunities so far, which is wonderful. And it’s wonderful to watch. And she’s lovely on set. And she enjoys that. And she enjoys the collaborative nature of this business. So, it’s been good. It’s been good.

David Read:
I wanna talk about action women for a minute here because there was a little bit of that in Atlantis. Teresa MC, “Torri, how did you get your mind set for the episode The Long Goodbye?” When you were slinging yourself over balconies, with the P-90. Quite a tour de force in one episode. They really made you run the gamut.

Torri Higginson:
I loved it. I used to do a lot of, we used to say straight-to-video movies, B-movies, action [movies]. So, I did a few action films in my 20s in Toronto and I really loved it. It’s just fun. It’s just sort of… I always had a bit of a tomboy in me, so I enjoyed the… I also always loved the thing with acting, when you’re not acting, you’re out of breath because you’ve been running. You’re throwing a punch. You don’t have to try to reach some emotional state or understand… You’re just there responding to the stimuli around you. And there’s something about physical work which does that in a really fun way. So that was super fun, and I was also always jealous of those guys who always got to go off each week and do some fun adventure and I was sort of stuck doing admin in the office. Doing the payroll. So, it was nice to go, “Oh yeah, I get to get dirty and roll around.” And work with BamBam who was amazing. That was really fun.

David Read:
There are fewer people I know that are cooler than he is. BamBam is an awesome human being. And now that he’s directing…

Torri Higginson:
Is he? I haven’t seen him for years.

Rachel Luttrell:
He is.

David Read:
He’s found his world. I mean, he’s always been in the right… But he’s found his niche.

Torri Higginson:
He’s a delight to work with. He’s so passionate, so joyful. Really would just go… I remember at the time, too, they weren’t paying… They weren’t willing to pay for us to do rehearsals on the weekend at the time. And he would just bring out, like, just show up in the parks on the weekend and we[‘d] just work it, work the routine and he just did it for the passion. Really, really impressive.

David Read:
Rachel, did you know when you got this assignment that it would be as physically rigorous as it often was? Was that in the description or was that a by-product of them watching you?

Rachel Luttrell:
Yes, it was a by-product of BamBam. Talking to BamBam… I’m talking to James about my dance background, and he just thought maybe this is something that could stick, speaking of sticks, no pun intended. And then he gave me the sticks. He gave me the fighting sticks and I honestly…

David Read:
It took me a minute to catch up.

Rachel Luttrell:
I didn’t even plan it. But he gave me the sticks and he gave me a simple routine and I was so nervous and thrown by it because I actually… I mean, I danced, and I did a ton of choreography and a lot of musical theater, but I’d never done stage combat and I’d never done anything remotely close to stunt work. So, I was quite nervous about it, and it wasn’t part of Teyla’s original description or any part of the audition. But I loved it. I really did. And I took the sticks home and I did the routine, the choreography, about a hundred times over with music and then I realized how similar it was to dance, that it was just choreography. And I loved that aspect of Teyla. I loved it.

David Read:
It’s amazing that these characters are not created in a vacuum, Torri. They’re watching your performance. They’re watching who’s relating to who. Those first few episodes are such an experiment to see what’s working [and] what’s not, and by the end of even the first season, the courses can be dramatically different bearing in the water from where you first started off with the character. Wherever your ship is being sailed.

Rachel Luttrell:
Absolutely. That’s a testament to our writing staff, and that they were able to see that and make the characters malleable in that way and be open to what we brought to the table as actors.

David Read:
What was it like switching from Rainbow to Jason? Rainbow is someone I’m very close with and the character and cast shakeups, they happen. Is it just a part of the biz that’s, like, “This is just the way that it goes?” What is it like, in a set where you are so dependent on one another, day to day, to get through it? What is it like switching out one of those personalities midstream for someone else? Is it just, “This is the journey of an actor, and this is how it goes?” Torri, can you speak at all to that? Because I know you guys were all fairly close.

Torri Higginson:
I think it is the life of the actor. I think we do know that we are dispensable. I’ve been written out of many shows. I’ve been bumped from number three to number one on shows because the lead got written out. Everything can happen. It is jarring, though, even though you know that’s the case, and you know that they might do it. Because of personal reasons, they might do it because of ratings reasons, they might do it just to shock something, they might do it… You have no control as an actor. Especially in television, you have no control. You don’t even choose which take that is the one that you feel most honest about. But it is very jarring when it happens because we are little gypsies. And every job is like the first day at a new school, and then you get to know the people and you have this… Especially if you’re working not in your hometown, so your whole social life is this group of people. And when one energy leaves, it completely changes it. It’s an ingredient in a recipe and it’s gonna completely change the flavor of the cake. Totally. And it’s not about better or worse, it’s just really, really different. And it is always jarring. It was… I adore Rainbow. I was jarring, jarring, jarring when we lost him. And that’s another reason why I love conventions, because we all get to see each other, and go, “Yeah, that energy.” And then Jason is such a delight and he’s such a different energy. You can’t compare [them]. There’s no comparison at all. Again, going back to… It’s just now, it’s gonna be a different cake and let’s make the best of it. Everything goes back to food.

Rachel Luttrell:
I love the analogy. Yes, let’s bring it all back to food. It’s true. Absolutely. You simply can’t compare. And I love both of them. I love both of them. And they’re so different and it was very sad to lose Rainbow. It was sad to lose… Because they’re… Everybody’s wonderful and we love… I personally love everybody on Atlantis. I have to say, for the first… Oh Lord, how long was it? Three weeks at least, no, maybe it was more than that, of filming, way back in the day when we started working, I was told that at any moment I could be let go. That there was somebody, and I don’t know who, it was probably an executive at the studio, [who] wasn’t 100 percent sold on me and my performance.

David Read:
Production told you this?

Rachel Luttrell:
I don’t even remember where I heard it. I think it came through my representation that it was, like, I was kind of on a probation.

David Read:
That’s bullshit.

Rachel Luttrell:
It was awful. It was super, super… I know, you’re a [inaudible]. It was very nerve-racking, and I had my very first full-blown panic attack during that time. It was cruel. Anyway, to speak to what Torri was saying that we are…

David Read:
Exactly.

Rachel Luttrell:
But at any point, any one of us could just…

Torri Higginson:
I was replacing an actor who played this character. I came in knowing they’d already re-written her once. “Maybe that’ll be the thing. Maybe have a different Weir every episode.”

David Read:
There have been characters just like that. “Oh, by the way, at the end of it, look at the pattern here. That’s what they were doing all along.” Interesting.

Torri Higginson:
We have to put our ego aside. It’s interesting in this job because you have… I always say you have to have a really strong thick skin and have to have a really thin skin at the same time. Because you have to be malleable, [and] you have to let stuff in, but you have to protect yourself. So, it’s this constant balance of being available, and being vulnerable, and also protecting yourself and being strong. It’s a crazy…

David Read:
I’m interested in both of your answers on this. But Rachel, I wanna know first. My favorite episode from the show is Sunday. One of the reasons was [that] Martin Gero and I were fairly tight in the first few years of the show. MSN messenger, remember that? We were on messenger a lot and he was always telling me about this show way back in Season One that he wanted to do. So, I got really personally invested in it and then I finally got to see it and Carson dies. How, Rachel, and next Torri, did you find out about it? Were you reading the script and you discovered that? And I’m curious to know how that made you think of the strength of the episode? Because it’s literally baked into the story along with losing a friend and a regular on set. How did you first find out? What was your initial reaction like? Did you find it out in the script or were you guys brought aside and told? Because I know Paul was told beforehand.

Rachel Luttrell:
Paul told me. Paul found out and then I remember having a conversation with him and I was shocked. [inaudible] shocked. And [I was] deeply, deeply saddened by it. I didn’t understand why, and I was just shocked. But I knew in advance. We all knew in advance. We had the conversation prior to… That didn’t make shooting the episode any easier. It really didn’t. We were… I think everybody was kind of an emotional wreck. It was very, very sad.

David Read:
Torri, one of my favorites moments from the entire shows is your speech in that episode.

Torri Higginson:
[It’s one of those] no acting required moments, right? Because it was just [inaudible].

David Read:
That’s exactly right.

Torri Higginson:
You are losing the… You’re, like, “Oh my God, the energy is gonna be so different without this human here every day. And same thing, I found out… They did tell Paul first, which is great because I’d been on shows where they don’t take the actor aside and tell them and they discover just at home reading the script. Even worse, I remember doing a show years ago that would always… We would always read the next script together over lunch. There’d be a readthrough and this actor found out during the readthrough, during the lunch, that she was getting killed off the next episode and then had to go back and work the rest of the afternoon. So just thoughtless. Just thoughtless. The producers weren’t bad people. They just were thoughtless. They just… It did not occur to them that, “Oh, that’s somebody’s…” not only creative life. That’s their financial life. That’s, like, their whole world is changing. And for them it was just a plot point. I’m glad they did that and I’m glad Paul came and told all of us as well. I’d rather have heard it from him than somebody else. It was hard and it was painful. But again, you understand why writers and staff do that. It was a very meaningful episode and people still talk about that episode. It was so shocking, and it was so… They wanted to grab the audience by the heart.

David Read:
They sure did.

Torri Higginson:
[inaudible] character do that with. Because everybody loved Carson. He was just this gentle, sweet… There is nothing jarring about his character at all.

David Read:
And I think that that’s the great thing about science fiction, is that there are avenues, to borrow from Star Trek, “There are always possibilities.” And that sequence in The Kindred, “Where have you guys been?” Paul had a second life on this show. They got to play around with, “What is a person? Is that our guy? He’s a clone. Who is he?” And at the same time, the actor gets to continue to work in some capacity. That was one of those really interesting twists in the narrative where it’s, like, “Well, we didn’t see that one coming.”

Torri Higginson:
Sci-fi and soap opera. It was the soap operas and then they woke up. It was all the dream. Anything could happen.

Rachel Luttrell:
Anything is possible. Yes.

David Read:
Was that Newhart? That was Newhart. I had it and it’s gone. Sandra Favela, “Question for both of you. Can you please share a memory of each from filming?”

Rachel Luttrell:
A memory of?

David Read:
Of each of you.

Rachel Luttrell:
Of each of us? Oh, goodness.

David Read:
I know there is a lot to choose from.

Rachel Luttrell:
There’s just so much to choose from. You know what pops into my head immediately, and it’s actually not from the set. It didn’t have anything to do with the show whatsoever but I’m gonna share it. I don’t even know if you remember, Torri, but there was a time when we were talking about filming a little short together. Do you remember that?

Torri Higginson:
Yes.

Rachel Luttrell:
We had all these fun ideas about filming this short and it was gonna be this kind of poetic, esoteric… Anyway, the first memories that pop into my mind are moments that we shared off the set. And just how deeply supportive and seen I felt with Torri, and just how wonderful it was to just have another woman on set, right?

Torri Higginson:
Yeah, felt the same way, so much so, because it was a very male energy. That show was a pretty masculine energy on a lot of levels. There wasn’t one woman in the office, except for secretaries.

Rachel Luttrell:
Except for secretaries.

Torri Higginson:
And no disrespect, I adore Brad Wright, and all those guys I adore. I’ve then gone on to work with some of the others as well. I have nothing but respect for all of them. But it was a very male energy. So, it meant the world to me having Rachel there. It meant the world. I felt very safe. I felt very safe with you. I felt very supported and that was huge. And by the way, we did film some of that. Terry, who’s now a huge great filmmaker… Remember Corky the driver? And Corky’s daughter, Kelly Haigh, she and I became great friends. And she was married to Terry Miles, who’s a writer and filmmaker in his own right. And he filmed some of that for us, that short. And I remember, I’d sort of come up with this scenario, and he filmed it and then we never got… We lost all the footage at one point. I just sort of lost it. He emailed it to me, and I’m just chaotic and I just lost it. I remember I loved that day. Flowering blooms and leaves. Nature and love it was about.

Rachel Luttrell:
Nature and love. Exactly. We were so fortunate. I have been on sets where the energy isn’t always as kind as one would hope, and I have been on sets where there’s just this level of, I don’t know, unease [or] jealousy, for lack of a better word. But there was none of that from the get-go with Torri, and it was just lovely, and grounded. I felt very safe as well. I’m so grateful for that.

David Read:
I’ve been privileged to get to know John Smith a little bit in the past couple of years. And he, talking about as, in many respects, a line producer of the show, setting a tone that, “We’re gonna do the work, we’re gonna have a good time,” and he’s gonna do it… He did everything that he could, from what I could see, to make sure that everyone felt taken care of, and that there wasn’t any kind of bullying or anything like that, which at a certain point, sometimes some of that stuff is gonna happen. Some of that’s gonna leak through. But I really got the impression, watching you guys work, that that was a rarity, if at all, that you guys had…

Rachel Luttrell:
That didn’t happen at all.

David Read:
Absolutely. And I’ve said this before, but I will say it again. It’s very evident, especially in Weir’s darkest hours, that these two were friends. Because when she really has to go to have a tough conversation with someone, that’s one of my favorite scenes, is in the Season Three finale when Elizabeth is, like, “I think I may have to stand down. What they’re doing, I think it’s wrong.” The woman she goes to is Teyla. And that made a lot of sense to me. There was a lot going on. These people had lives in this place. The women stood up for one another. They really did.

Torri Higginson:
I know I said this a lot as well, but I always wish that we could have done more with that, with those two women, and what their relationship would have been in that. Because both of them were in very male circles, again. Her with all the boys in the puddle jumper, and me dealing with all the American male military and politicians. I think there could have been such a… That was just one aspect I wish they’d flesh out a bit more.

Rachel Luttrell:
Me too. 100 percent. That would have been wonderful.

David Read:
One of my favorite scenes of Elizabeth is in the episode 38 Minutes, very early on. Ben Cotton, what a great guest star he was.

Torri Higginson:
He’s so great.

David Read:
As Peter Kavanagh. And you stare him down. There’s one moment, he’s, like, he’s gonna put a conversation aside and be, like, “We’re gonna talk about this later.” And she’s, like, “No. Never again. Move along. Or I’ll find you a nice planet to put you on.”

Torri Higginson:
He’s such a wonderful actor. He’s such a lovely human being. And his character was such a dick. He just loved it. I loved it.

David Read:
Bailistic wants to know, “Rachel, how did you feel when you stepped on that set for the first time?” Was it anything like you had seen before? Did it give you an idea of, “Oh, this is the caliber of the work that we’re gonna be doing. This is where we’re going with this thing.”

Rachel Luttrell:
Yes, yes. And no, I had never stepped on a set like that before, at all. It was fabulous. It did set the tone for how magical the rest of the production was gonna be. There was just such attention to detail, and it kind of blew my mind. The only thing that I can really compare it to are I guess some of the musical theater productions that I did way back in the day, with the sets. But it was pretty mind-blowing when I first saw it.

David Read:
You guys signed… Was it five-year contracts? Six-year contracts?

Rachel Luttrell:
Gosh, going back to contracts…

David Read:
Maybe it’s none of my business. Maybe I shouldn’t be asking this.

Torri Higginson:
I did a five-year [contract].

David Read:
You did five-year?

Rachel Luttrell:
I think, eventually, yes, I did a five-year contract. But as I said, that very beginning, I was kind of on probation.

David Read:
What I asked in that is that, did that inform kind of the caliber of where this was going? Was that… Torri, was five years unusual?

Torri Higginson:
Well, it’s funny because I fought against it. I did not want a five-year. I was petrified about having the same job for that long, and I was begging for three years. So, life is funny [because] I ended up only doing three seasons.

David Read:
So, it’s individual? It’s per cast member then. It’s not for the troupe.

Torri Higginson:
I think on the whole… I think because they are coming off SG-1 which had such a success, I think there was a lot of… There’s a lot of shows that I’ve done that usually ask for three to five-year contracts. And it’s always… It’s a one-sided commitment. Because they can fire you at any point.

Rachel Luttrell:
Yes.

Torri Higginson:
But you have to commit to them for that amount of time. So, it’s not, like, this great gift of, “Oh great, I’ve got five years.” You just know, “I have no options for five years.” They got all the options that they want. That’s just the nature of the biz. So, at the time, I was, like, “It’s the last thing I want, is five years.” My life was down here, and I didn’t know what I was gonna do with my relationship and all this kind of stuff. And it’s just funny because now I would die for a five-year contract. Not die for it, then I wouldn’t get to enjoy it. Now, I would really welcome five years.

Rachel Luttrell:
[inaudible] is a better word. As would I. I would welcome that as well. But yes, five years. And it’s always kind of scary in the beginning when you’re signing those contracts. Because it’s before you’ve met anyone or have any understanding of how this journey is gonna play, and you’re signing away five years of your life.

David Read:
The person that I was five years ago is not the person I am now. Who the heck am I gonna be then?

Torri Higginson:
Exactly. And when you’re young, too, you have this idea, but I think it’s different now. I think I had a bit of snobbery of, “Do I wanna do a TV series? I wanna do film. I wanna do theater.” I wanted to have… I didn’t want a regular job. In my brain, I thought, “If I wanted a regular job, I’d work in a bank.” Because the hours are better. “Do I wanna do the same thing for five years, 18 hours a day? What if I don’t like how they write the character? Or what if I…?”

David Read:
You have no rip cord to pull.

Torri Higginson:
There is no rip cord. So, I think that was definitely part of the youthful… I had more ambition, too, like, possibilities of what else could be. And that’s one thing I do, [when] I look back, I wish… What is that great thing? “Youth is wasted on the young.” But I recognize that I wish I had some of the wisdom that I have now. And I think I would have walked into that job with a very different approach and appreciation than I had at the time, to be honest.

David Read:
I’m curious as to what your thoughts are with the industry contraction as it is going on right now. Have you guys felt it? Do you have colleagues that are still struggling after everything has been ironed out with the strikes? I know a lot of people that I have been talking to… I don’t know how real you guys wanna get with this, but I know a lot of people that I’ve been talking to through Dial the Gate. A number of them have had to, especially in the below-the-line parts of the industry, switch jobs, and pick up extra work outside of the industry because they can’t make it work anymore. And it’s frightening to watch all these people who are artists and amazing performers and creators struggle this badly. I have serious concerns.

Torri Higginson:
I think we are really having to rethink our entire industry right now. I think it’s changing [and] shifting in a huge way. And it’s confusing because on one level it seems there’s more platforms that have ever been, so you would think it means there’s more content. But also, the platforms have changed. I think a lot of people are not watching our… TikTok and YouTube are huge, and that’s much cheaper to produce. So, people I know in the commercial industry, they’re not working either. Because people are going straight to social media influencers. It just saves them a lot of money, instead of paying for this two billion dollar commercial. Now they can just send somebody product and a little paycheck. It’s a really different industry, for sure. And on top of it, I’m a woman in my fifties. That has never been a very popular time, for women especially. And now, I can’t moan this because I have been very privileged the last three decades. And my skin color has been a part of that privilege. So, I’m very aware that opening to diversity is making my life more challenging. But I have to be grateful for that. I am nothing but aware that I’ve only had the career I had the last three decades because of my skin color. And now we have to share that, and shift that, so that’s scary and it’s also “Yes, and…” That’s the truth and what do we do next? I don’t know. Everybody I know in this industry right now is saying crickets and it’s scary. And old dogs, new tricks. I don’t know.

Rachel Luttrell:
Exactly. It is very scary, and the industry is [changing]. My little sister, actually, was telling me that… Well, we don’t have a pilot season anymore. I remember back when I moved to Los Angeles 20-some-odd years ago, the amount of work that was available to you, the amount of possibilities, the amount of auditions that we were going out on has just been completely stripped away. And now, I think there were only three pilots that were made this year, and I think they were all for NBC, which is kind of shocking. It’s a scary time. And it’s very bizarre, Torri, as you said, there are so many more platforms and so much more content but at the same time it doesn’t feel, like, there [are] that many more, I don’t know, possibilities. I haven’t been working for a while, and I keep hearing that it’s my time. I’m, like, a bit… I don’t know. I haven’t been working for a while. As easeful as auditioning at home kind of is, at the same time you’re kind of sending it into vacuum. Whereas way back in the day, when we used to go into a room, and maybe they were only seeing, like, 40 people at the best, and now they’re seeing hundreds of people for a lot of these productions. And you can be anywhere in the world, which is kind of lovely, but at the same time… I don’t know.

David Read:
Torri, what are the detractors from auditioning by tape at home over Zoom for you?

Torri Higginson:
Because now it’s a full-on gamble. There’s nothing about… And I used to hate the word art and craft but there’s nothing about that anymore. Because now you submit one take which is a gamble. Every script you read, there’s a million paths you can choose to go with every character. And you used to go into a room, and you had dialogue with, if at best, the director. But even if it’s the casting person, the casting person had conversations with the director, knew what they were looking for, knew the tone of the show. So, it felt more creative. An audition could be a creative experience that you could leave and go, “Great. We did one way, they threw some ideas at me, I offered another way. We had a dialogue.” It was a team working together trying to discover if you wanted to work together, if you had the same lens. Now it’s just, like, throwing something at the wall and going, “Hm.” [inaudible]

Rachel Luttrell:
And I’ve heard from casting agents that you’ve got… I think it’s the first 20 seconds of those tapes. They watch the first 20 seconds.

David Read:
They just watch… Wow!

Rachel Luttrell:
Because they’re getting such volume of [tapes]. They don’t have the time to do it. So those decisions are being made like that.

David Read:
And you have no casting person in the room who at least has a vested interest in maneuvering you toward the director’s vision. So that if you’re trying something, you’d be, like, “Well, let’s try it this way.” And you can at least go, Torri, [what] you were talking about, “This is the one in the million paths I could take.” You just have to interpret the text as best you can based on the notes that you’ve [been given]. That’s terrifying.

Torri Higginson:
It’s terrible. So, then you also… I find myself just making choices trying to get it right. Instead of following instincts and going, “Oh, this is what excites me about it,” you go, “Oh gosh, is that too broad? Is that out there? Is that too…?” So, you end up making a really safe choice that you hope they can see on either side of what that choice is. It’s awful. I’m hating it.

Rachel Luttrell:
Yeah, I know. Or you make a huge choice [inaudible] and then you think, “Oh my gosh, did I make a fool out of myself?” You never…

Torri Higginson:
You don’t even hear back. You used to at least get, when you walked out of the room, “Thank you for coming in. Thank you for the work.” Because work goes into it. Every audition you get, you read the script, then you gotta memorize the sides, you make decisions. Sometimes there’s research about the character, about the writer. At best, an audition is easily seven to 10 hours work. Now it’s much more. Because now you’ve gotta also find somebody to read with. Then you’ve gotta pay for it. I’m now paying for them because I’m so tired asking my friends to help me. So, you’re paying for an audition and you’re putting in 10 to 15 hours of work and you don’t even get a “Thank you for the work. Thank you for…”

Rachel Luttrell:
You’re setting everything up. You’re editing everything yourself. You’re doing all of that and then you’re sending it off into the great void.

Torri Higginson:
It’s very demoralizing.

David Read:
I didn’t realize it was that complicated. I knew it was a lot of work, and you have to be your own lighting, and editor now, and everything else but seven to 10 hours of prep work for something that you may not even get. And now, in some cases, paying for what you would [have] been able to drive to before.

Torri Higginson:
I used to… I pay for it too, because that whole thing about editing and submitting,. I will spend, like, five hours trying to pick between two takes and knowing this [that] they’re probably only gonna look at the first 20 seconds, and I’m going mad over the difference in these two takes, and the difference probably ain’t even that much. It feeds all the worst parts of myself.

Rachel Luttrell:
Talking about being in your head. Try to avoid…

David Read:
I appreciate the clarification in seeing a little bit of your worlds, for sure, and what [it] is like on a week-to-week basis. And Rachel, for you with kids, I’m sure it’s, like, “Mama Bear’s got… Look at the guard rails over there. Look… Don’t go over there. We’re gonna keep our eye on the ball. This is what it is. Come on, folks.”

Rachel Luttrell:
Right. Still keep it fun. It’s still fun.

David Read:
Absolutely. You can’t hate it.

Rachel Luttrell:
No, no. My sweet little one, Ridley, she had a Zoom call back the other day, which… At least, you’re in the same time.

Torri Higginson:
The dialogue.

Rachel Luttrell:
But it’s still devoid of that energy that you get when you’re in a room with someone.

David Read:
There’s a delay.

Rachel Luttrell:
There’s still something very, like, what’s the word I’m looking, antiseptic about those interactions and it makes everybody kind of crazy. And she was super nervous about it, and you know it’s hard for me to watch my little one going from being, like, “Oh, this is gonna be fun” to “Oh my goodness, they’re almost there. Oh my God, they’re gonna watch me and I’m gonna…” And I’m trying… My job is to just to keep it fun. My job is to continue… And as I do that with her, I’m reminding myself of it. Because I implode the same way. But it’s just, “Honey, just be you, and be in the moment,” and all that stuff. And she did, and I’m very, very proud of her, and we’ve not talked about it since. It’s just been put away, and she went to her sleepover and pool party and it’s all good. But anyway, it’s a very rot process.

David Read:
I think that she is one that if she wants it badly enough, I think she’s got it. But the matter is persistence. I suspect, at some point, as much of her as I’ve seen, which is not very much, that if she keeps her nose to the grindstone, I think something big is in her future.

Rachel Luttrell:
I do, too. It’s kind of magical to watch. It really is. And it reminds me… I don’t know, she’s just got this authenticity, and obviously that comes with being little but it’s just a beautiful reminder to me as I’m, like, 53 years old and I’m constantly reminding myself that it’s OK to be me and bring what I have to the table and all of that. But Ridley just does [it] kind of effortlessly. And I, as a mom, am striving to cultivate that to make sure that that’s something that she can take with her always. Because it’s a really, really beautiful thing. And if this is something that she wants to continue to do, I do think that she could be very successful. And I will certainly be there to protect her from all of the…

David Read:
Oh gosh, yeah. The daggers, and all the slings and arrows. Yep. Absolutely. You both were Vancouverites for a number of years, and Joey wants to know, “While filming in Vancouver, did either of you do the Grouse Grind? And if you did, did you make it to the top?”

Torri Higginson:
I did not do it which is crazy because I hike 10 miles a day up Griffith Park. I don’t know why I did not do it then. I remember hearing about it, and I just never did it. You can make a trip now.

David Read:
Yeah, for sure.

Torri Higginson:
Did you, Rachel?

Rachel Luttrell:
Yeah, I did a portion of it. But I didn’t… I don’t know, it wasn’t something that… I don’t know. It wasn’t something that grabbed me so no, I didn’t do it. But I very much appreciated being out in nature up there. So, so beautiful. And I did go for walks, and I did go for hikes, but I didn’t do that.

Torri Higginson:
Grind.

Rachel Luttrell:
I didn’t do Grind. I think it was that word [inaudible]. The Grind.

Torri Higginson:
“I’ve been working 18 hours. Do I do the Grind on my day off?”

Rachel Luttrell:
Exactly. They needed a new PR person for that to get me up there.

David Read:
Stargatelover’sFriend​​, and this is news to me, “It’s” apparently “Teylabeth week right now, a fan event to celebrate the relationship between Elizabeth and Teyla.” I didn’t know this.

Torri Higginson:
I didn’t know that.

David Read:
I timed it exactly. Welcome to Teylabeth week. “If the show ever returned in any form, what would you want their reunion and relationship to be?” I would have frankly loved an episode where the two of you got other people inside of you who are in love. But that’s just me.

Rachel Luttrell:
I’m sorry, say that again. Got other people inside us who were in love? I don’t… Paint that for me please.

Torri Higginson:
Oh, like The Long Goodbye?

David Read:
Like The Long Goodbye.

Torri Higginson:
I wanted to kiss. A kissage. I would like us just to have a tea session, just spilling the tea.

Rachel Luttrell:
Oh, see, I was thinking some wine, but that’s what I was thinking.

Torri Higginson:
We’d have wine in our teapot, but it’d be about spilling the tea.

David Read:
I have a lot of friends who are slashers who would really appreciate it. That’s all I’m saying. But absolutely. Rachel, Right Raptor, I know you and I have talked about this, “Would you…” Apparently, Joseph Mallozzi has recently… Are you guys good on time? Good for a little bit more?

Rachel Luttrell:
I don’t even know what time it is. I’m in my little void here and nobody’s…

David Read:
It’s 2 o’clock. It’s the top of the hour. Three o’clock for you. 10 more minutes. 10 more minutes good?

Rachel Luttrell:
Sure.

Torri Higginson:
Sure.

David Read:
“Would you have returned… Apparently Season Six, the outline, would have brought back your performance as the Wraith Queen. Would you have gotten back into that makeup again so eagerly?

Rachel Luttrell:
Eagerly? Now hang on a second. Not eagerly, no. Listen, that’s an ordeal. I mean, yes. You have to show up… I think I showed up at 4:30 p.m. in the morning, maybe it was little earlier, and it takes hours to put that on and it can be a little claustrophobic. But when all was said and done, and I was the Queen, it was pretty fantastic. There was something about that that felt powerful. Strangely, oddly, but very, very powerful and so yes, I would do that again. It always makes me laugh, that episode, because, and I know I’ve shared this before, Caden was very, very little. Caden was really… He was tiny. He was an infant.

David Read:
You were nursing with the Wraith mask.

Rachel Luttrell:
Exactly. And he was in the trailer with me, and I was so concerned about how he was gonna take that. I just was really, “Am I gonna scar my sweetheart forever?” He loves thrillers and really scary movies now.

David Read:
I wonder why.

Rachel Luttrell:
I don’t know. Maybe it had something to do with it. But yes, just a little aside, to answer your question, yes, I would do it. Yes. But I wouldn’t wanna be that character always. That’s quite exhausting. But yes, when Caden first saw me, I came into the trailer. I would come in bits and pieces, like, “Now I’ve got this, now I’ve got this,” and then I came in and he laughed. I remember he was, like, he laughed. He thought it was so funny, “Look at mama.”

David Read:
“Mama may permanently scar my child if I’m not careful about this. You don’t know how he’s gonna take it.” So that’s great.

Rachel Luttrell:
No, I didn’t. But he laughed so that was fabulous. That’s my sweet Caden.

David Read:
Torri, we lost David Ogden Stiers a few years ago. He played Oberoth. And one of my favorite scenes, a couple of them I guess, is the two of you going toe to toe. What was that man like?

Torri Higginson:
Oh my gosh. I remember I was so excited when I heard I got to work with him, that he was gonna do an episode with us. Because I grew up watching him, like, M*A*S*H meant everything to me.

David Read:
Me too.

Torri Higginson:
He was a delight. He was a delightful human being, a delightful actor, generous, professional, funny, talented. He was [an] absolute delight. I remember we talked about maybe we should do Shakespeare together in the Oregon [Shakespeare] Festival, and I was so just moved and blown away to share space with him.

David Read:
He drove up across the border. They’re, like, “We can get you a car or we can fly you up.” He just drove up for the work, across the border. Made a road trip of it. It is one of my great disappointments… And we’re losing people left and right. Who did we just lose? Alan Scarfe, Rachel, Alan Scarfe from Poisoning the Well in Season One. He just passed away. And we’re losing so many of these voices that I, as an interviewer trying to archive a lot of this, I’m losing them. It’s like, you just can’t get them all. And it’s a shame. So, their stories… Torri, I have… Someone had asked, [and] I apologize, I don’t have the name, are you gonna be getting back on Cameo at some point? There are some people who really want you on there.

Torri Higginson:
It’s so… I got scared off Cameo. I got scared off it. But I think I might because, you know, just [how] life is. It might be helpful, and so I might do it again. I think I just have to create different boundaries because in the past, there was… It was just weird. I didn’t know how to say no to people when the same person would ask for video all the time and I felt that I was abusing them, going, “You’re giving me so much money.” It just felt uncomfortable. I thought this is not a healthy amount of times you should be asking for a video from me. And then this person actually showed up at my house one day, so I was just… I felt very boundaries were not clear with that.

David Read:
Completely.

Torri Higginson:
But I think that I just have to have my own boundaries and then also not be shy to say to the app to refuse requests at times. But I have nothing but… I’m surprised that people are passionate about me as an actor and I’m grateful for it but there is a line that they cross sometimes that I feel uncomfortable with and Cameo is blurry with that.

David Read:
Rachel, have you had…? You’re still running on there, right?

Rachel Luttrell:
Yeah, I probably do one or two a month. I have not had a similar occurrence that Torri was talking about. Mine, happily, have all been quite lovely. Birthday wishes. Anniversary wishes. They’ve all been really, really lovely. I think there was maybe one that I just felt a little uncomfortable with and I passed.

David Read:
So, you can return the money then? OK.

Rachel Luttrell:
Oh yes.

David Read:
That’s awesome.

Rachel Luttrell:
I had the same kind of apprehensions I the beginning, but it’s been quite delightful.

Torri Higginson:
It is awesome. One bad apple, because it was [but] most of them were lovely. But it takes one [and] you just get scared. I immediately scared.

David Read:
There’s nothing wrong with that and as we’re all figuring out these technologies as we move forward, we’re all gonna have to figure out our own personal boundaries with them, especially as we have these artificial creations interacting with us more and more and setting up our digital routines more than we even realize. I think education of ourselves, and transparency is all the more important as we continue to use them and as we continue to use those tools to interact with one another.

Torri Higginson:
That is a fear, too. I just saw this thing, this wonderful woman who does this extraordinary TED Talk and she just showed all of these clips of her doing the same TED Talk in 10 different languages. And her lips are moving as if she’s speaking those different languages, and she said that “I do not speak all those languages. That is an AI tool.” So, there is that fear about putting yourself as yourself out there. It’s different if you’re gonna pull something from Doctor Weir, a character, but the more you put out there as yourself, the more raw material they have to… It’s creepy. It’s a strange, creepy [inaudible].

David Read:
And on the one hand, we’re breaking down barriers by communicating but also, I don’t know those languages. How are they… What words are they using to interpret the words that I’m using that don’t translate well? That’s scary.

Torri Higginson:
Every shitty coin has a shiny side. Every shiny coin has a shitty side. [inaudible].

David Read:
Guys, this has been really special to have you both on. I love you both so much and it means the world to me that you are still involved in our lives as fans, and the conventions. Basingstoke. Basingstoke. There it is. We continue to be a huge fandom family. I don’t think Stargate is done for you, guys. I really don’t. At least I hope and pray. Because MGM is gonna do something.

Torri Higginson:
It brings me love all the time but still, Basingstoke for me was amazing. I know for others may not have been, but I had lovely time. Such a lovely time. I’m always amazed at the support and the kindness and the passion of this and how many generations this show has touched. And I feel very honored to be a part of something that has that kind of breadth.

David Read:
Absolutely. Rachel, thank you. Thank you as well for stopping in. Always love catching up with you.

Rachel Luttrell:
It’s my pleasure. Always.

David Read:
Absolutely. I’m gonna wrap up the show. Thank you so much guys. We’ll be in touch.

Rachel Luttrell:
Thank you, David.

David Read:
Thank you.

Torri Higginson:
Thank you, David. That’s a pleasure.

David Read:
If you enjoy Stargate, click the Like button. We really appreciate you watching. And subscribe to the show. Click the bell icon for more immediate responses on what we’re doing. We’re gonna be playing Stargate: Timekeepers tomorrow so be sure to join us and dialthegate.com has the complete schedule. We’re gonna be playing that game live. My thanks to my moderating team. You guys, you’re the best. And everyone who makes the show possible. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate and I’ll see you on the other side.