No one can imagine stepping into a series nine years in to fill the shoes of its lead. Instead, Ben Browder, as Cameron Mitchell, helped to make the show more of an imminent ensemble, and took the franchise in new directions for two seasons and two movies! He joins us to discuss those memories as well as crossing the finish line in Antarctica!

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
00:17 – Opening Credits
00:47 – Welcome
01:08 – Guest Introduction
01:44 – Catching Up with Ben
04:57 – Ben Browder as John Sheppard?
05:59 – Australia Kicked Us Out
07:37 – Joining SG-1 For Season Nine
10:14 – “200”
12:53 – Working with Claudia Black in Two Series
15:02 – Adjusting to Stargate SG-1
18:22 – “How did you travel before phones?”
19:32 – SG-1 Became More of an Ensemble
21:54 – Filming in the Arctic (Barry Campbell)
25:25 – Stargate/Navy Survivor
29:00 – Don’t Leave Boots on the Floor
30:00 – Pitching In
35:18 – Working on Iké Boys
37:39 – Working with Beau Bridges
42:40 – Remembering Lou Gossett Jr
46:05 – Remembering Cliff Simon
47:38 – What Happened to Mitchell In the 1930s After He Killed Baal?
50:35 – Cameron Mitchell in Stargate Origins?
54:00 – Filming “The Pegasus Project”
54:59 – Rolling in the Mud in “Camelot”
57:16 – Aged Makeup in “Unending”
57:59 – Side Effects of Prosthetics
1:00:26 – Where is Cameron (Prime) Now?
1:03:12 – Current Projects
1:04:07 – “Is there gonna be more Stargate?”
1:05:37 – Thank you, Ben!
1:06:55 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
1:08:13 – Sommer’s Dragons (DragonPets.com)
1:10:32 – End Credits

***

“Stargate” and all related materials are owned by MGM Studios and MGM Television.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello everyone. My name is David Read. I appreciate you tuning in for another episode for Dial the Gate. Episode 249. This episode is very special for me because I am finally getting to catch up with someone whom I go way back with. Mr. Ben Browder. Cameron Mitchell on Stargate SG-1. You may know him as John Crichton on Farscape. Ben, how’s it going, man? It’s so good to see you again. I appreciate you being here.

Ben Browder:
It’s good to see you, David. It’s been a minute.

David Read:
I know, man.

Ben Browder:
Water keeps flowing under this bridge.

David Read:
That’s a good thing. How has life been treating you? How is family? How are things going in your world? We’ve had a pandemic. We’ve had a few things since we last met up at Comic Con. What’s been going on?

Ben Browder:
A lot for everybody in the world, I think. Yeah. What’s been going on? Family is grown. I’m waiting for somebody to deliver some younger generation for me to corrupt. [The] first time we spoke, I think, one of my kids wasn’t even in grade school yet.

David Read:
It was 2005 or something. How they grow, man. And now they’re flying planes.

Ben Browder:
One of them is flying planes. One of them, the Air Force took. The other one is in Hollywood working, writing and producing. They’re doing fine. They’re both married. They’re both grown people, and I’m waiting for them to come take care of me.

David Read:
Absolutely, man. I remember you have… I produced a conversation that you had with Christopher Judge and Beau Bridges, talking about how the Air Force… I’ll never forget this line, “She do take her slice.”

Ben Browder:
The Air Force, the DoD do take a slice, man. Be careful what you promise [is] all I can say. He’s loving his life, and my daughter loves what she does, so they figured it out despite all of the bad influences that I gave them.

David Read:
Please thank him for his service for me.

Ben Browder:
You pay his paycheck. You’re good, You’re solid. So that’s happened. We went through the pandemic which I think was terrible for everybody in one way or another. Worse for some in California than those in Tennessee where you are now.

David Read:
It’s been a wild ride.

Ben Browder:
That is if you wanted to go outside and go for a walk.

David Read:
Yeah. Population per square mile, I’ve got more room out here. I actually spent most of it in Phoenix. It was fun. Real quick story. We were one of the first states that opened. And then everyone and their mother came from all the other states and surprise, Arizona shoots to number one in the nation for COVID. And everyone’s, like, “Well, how did this happen?” It’s, like, “I don’t know. Maybe everyone decided to come vacation here.”

Ben Browder:
It was interesting. It was the Chinese interesting time, man. So, life is good. Family is good. Work is sporadic but I’m not complaining about my life. It’s been OK. I’m not suffering.

David Read:
There you go.

Ben Browder:
Maybe I should. Maybe I need to suffer a little more.

David Read:
Be careful what you wish for.

Ben Browder:
It’s always coming. The dark clouds are always on the horizon, and I don’t know that there’s anything we can do about that. That’s the cycle of nature.

David Read:
Some information came out long after I interviewed you about some of the offers that came before. Either that or I was just oblivious, which is entirely possible. My understanding is you were offered the role of Sheppard for Atlantis. Is there truth to that?

Ben Browder:
That’s the rumor. That’s what I heard. I was shooting Farscape miniseries when they were firing that up. I think I was probably, maybe, on their list because they did pick me up for Cameron Mitchell afterwards. It wasn’t, like, I turned it down.

David Read:
You were preoccupied with ending one of the more wacky [and] cool sci-fi series that have been produced.

Ben Browder:
We were trying to finish a story. I was otherwise engaged.

David Read:
For sure. Did you stay in Australia after that production was done or did you return to the States?

Ben Browder:
No, Australia kicked us out the minute our visas expired. An actor is not actually a qualified immigrant status in Australia. If I had been a taxi driver, I probably could have stayed but immigration law around the world is always a little funky. Australia was great. It was a great place to raise kids. I think I would have loved to have stayed there. I don’t know if I could have made a living there.

David Read:
Have your ticket been open-ended for that country? Would you have considered changing your citizenship?

Ben Browder:
No, I wouldn’t. But as an immigrant, I think dual citizenship is possible these days. It used to be [that] you’d have to give up your American passport. I don’t think I would have done that. But living there… The kids were there. My kids are dual passport holders anyway because my wife is English.

David Read:
I know a few of those as well. That’s quite an advantage for sure.

Ben Browder:
They might have been able to stay but I was pretty sure Australia wasn’t gonna let me stay.

David Read:
Your utility has run out. Put a few more quarters in the meter.

Ben Browder:
Fair dinkum.

David Read:
Looking back, and we’re gonna get to the crème de la crème fairly soon with Antarctica, what was it like stepping into this thing? You’re getting on board of moving train for Season Nine. As we both know, that’s bonus land. If we’ve managed to get to a ninth season in science fiction, that’s, like, “Oh right then.” What was it like joining that team and getting the feel for how they work, for Christopher Judge’s antics, for everything?

Ben Browder:
We’re digging deep into the memory sockets right now. Some of those wires are a bit frayed. My memory of it is that it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed the cast. I still enjoy the cast. I still like being around them. I appreciate them even more as I get older. I saw Rick and Mike and Amanda in Germany last year, and they’re smart, entertaining, engaging people. The cast was great. I still touch bases with some of the producers and writers on occasion, when I ran into people who were on the show. It was a great experience. It was a lot of fun. They had their thing the way they did it. My job was to come in and be helpful and non-obtrusive in a lot of ways. Which is why I watched the show before I went on to the show, to go, “What is it [that] you do and how can I help?” I wasn’t trying to take over anything. I was just trying to find a way to slot into how they tell stories about going through the gate. For me it was fun. It was difficult because I was traveling back and forth between Los Angeles and Vancouver, because my kids were in school. That part, the travel part, was hard on a personal level but the rest of it was great.

David Read:
Absolutely. I can’t imagine keeping up with all that. Especially with children. Did they give you an apartment? Did you have something in Vancouver?

Ben Browder:
I had an apartment which was part of the deal-making process. Otherwise, I’d have been on the streets in Vancouver so they would have been picking me up in Gastown. That probably wouldn’t do too well. So, I had an apartment.

David Read:
What was it like shooting that 200th episode? I had long conversations with everyone about this and it seems to me, like, it was three or four episodes in one, in terms of production. The number of locations, the number of different sketches that were all in production to make this thing happen. It just must have been a frenzy to shoot.

Ben Browder:
It was a busy and big episode, but it was a lot of fun. I think, episodes like that which are kind of taking a look at themselves… It’s a meta episode so it’s for the fans first. But it’s also for the people who work on the show. It’s for the crew, it’s for the writers, it’s for the actors, to kind of take a look at yourself, and make fun of yourself. And you get Rick back, you get all the crazy stuff, you get the puppets. Are you hearing my ding in the background?

David Read:
Yeah, that’s fine.

Ben Browder:
It’s a notification. I never get any notifications and suddenly I’m talking to you, and it’s, like, “What’s going on on the Sunday morning?” I think those were just fun episodes and they poke fun at me and Claudia. Everybody got their chance to have some fun poked at them and I think that’s a great thing, occasionally. Just to step outside the frame for a minute, and then you can step back in the frame.

David Read:
It’s one of my favorites and I remember Brad saying, “People are either gonna like this thing or they’re gonna hate it.” It’s a balance when you turn around and point the finger at yourself. Because people can be, like, “Hey, you’re not that big of a deal,” or “Wait a second. They really do get what they’re creating.” So much of this show really is comedic, and they just turned all those dials up to 11 for this episode.

Ben Browder:
I don’t think anyone gets off scot-free from the laser beam pointed at them. Not even the fans. Because [inaudible] “Here’s what the fans want so we’re gonna give them this, and then we’re gonna walk away from it.” But everybody was fair game, and I thought it was good-hearted and generous. The fact is, is that there is no single episode of any TV show which is for everyone. So, if you get a good chunk of people that enjoy the episode then you’ve done your job.

David Read:
Tell me about Claudia Black. Tell me about working with her as an actor and as a person. And getting to, who would have thought, on another continent, in another hemisphere, do it all over again for two more years.

Ben Browder:
Claudia is [a] maximally talented actor. She’s a good human being, and she’s a friend. So, getting to work with Claudia again at any time, anywhere, was a privilege and would be a privilege.

David Read:
One of the best episodes of that run, [and] there were a few of them, but “Bounty” was one of my favorites because it finally puts the two of you together in a buddy situation. And it was… For instance, the casting of Anne Marie DeLuise, to bring her in as Amy Vanderburg, who we had heard about in the show, and to kind of put her in the midst of this thing with Claudia running around. That was a great episode. And I understand why it took them a little while to get around to putting the two of you together because they wanted to make the distinction that this was not together, like, romantically but together, like, in a longer episode. Because they were trying to make this show its own thing. But, man, that was funny. That was good stuff.

Ben Browder:
I’m glad you enjoyed it. And I got to work with Claudia for a while. Because Claudia and I had a shorthand for working together and we worked, I think, reasonably well on screen together. There was good chemistry. So, I think that when you bring two leads from one show into another show, it’s a bold decision. And I think the decision to keep us apart was probably wise for a while.

David Read:
Was there anything that you as an actor had to wrap your brain around with this particular franchise that took a little longer to bring you up to speed than Farscape? I can understand you sitting down and watching the entire pantheon of the show to get a good grasp of it. Or was it just another excellent sci-fi show to be a part of? Was there anything that you had to get adjust to, like, the velocity of the schedule, or the complexity of the visual effects, [or] the lack of puppets?

Ben Browder:
Definitely the lack of puppets is a problem. I think that the difficult thing when you go to a new show is making the recognition up front that it has a different style, and it has a different focal point. Farscape was very John Crichton-centric. It was very relationship-centric, and it was weird in many, many ways. And it was much more serialized than Stargate. Stargate has the capacity with the gate, and with the next adventure, to tell more episodic style stories. But I think the biggest thing when I joined the show, which, I think, I recognized early on when I watched the show, was that it’s Stargate. It’s about the gate. It’s about the adventure that the gate takes you to. And so, knowing that it’s not centered on a character per se [and] recognizing that that was the important thing, sort of thematically speaking. Anytime you go to a new show, you’re dealing with a different rhythm, you’re dealing with a different crew, you’re dealing with a different dynamic, you’re dealing with the different way that people communicate. And then Canada’s different from America, it’s different from England, it’s different from Australia. So, there’s a lot of small things. We share a lot of common language but sometimes we’re divided by those languages. So, gaining the understanding of how does this crew work is a process and you just have to kind of reset what you think you know and relearn. Because what happens in our lives is we get to this point where we’ve got our instincts and we’ve got our understanding of how things operate so we have a shortcut in our head, “This is this.” You have to kind of reframe your shortcuts. Puristic would be a bigger word for it, but I like shortcut. So, you have to change your internal puristic or shortcut to deal with what’s in front of you, not what you’re used to, and that’s the kind of the journey through life as we go. The world is gonna change on us, and the rules are gonna change, and my goodness, I’m gonna need my phone when I travel. What?

David Read:
For everything. If you lose it, you’re done.

Ben Browder:
It’s literally [it]. And I had this discussion with one of my kids. We were traveling and they turned to me and said, “How did you travel before phones?” I said, “What do you mean how did I travel before phones?” [They asked] “Well, how do you know where to go?” I go, “I had these things called maps. And we would look at the map, and we would look up in the index, and then we do that, and then we’d step out into daylight, and we’d dead reckon our way according to which way the sun was beaming and somehow, we ended up in the right place.” So, we’re constantly, in life, if we’re hoping to be successful, trying to reframe our shortcuts and how we navigate the world, and it’s the same going on on a set. So, you gotta be open to the experience and be a little humble when you travel through the world because everything is gonna change.

David Read:
For sure. And I do love that [in] the later seasons of the show, it became more an ensemble. Rick was Rick. When he’s on, it’s, like, you wanna suck that all in. And Seasons Nine and Ten, I think it was more of an opportunity for everyone to really shine equally. And it expanded those characters a lot. And I think Mitchell just helped raise them all. Because he was interested in each of them as people. He wanted to join them.

Ben Browder:
It’s an interesting question about TV shows in general. If you’re on a TV show and you have one character who can carry… And you got Rick in the beginning. And Rick was an experienced actor. He’s a charismatic actor. He’s smart about stuff. And he’s kind of endlessly entertaining. And he had a cast surrounding him who were very smart, very charismatic, but they didn’t have the wealth of experience and background that Rick did. So of course you’re gonna center it on Rick. By the time you get to Season Eight, you have another… By the time we get to Season Nine, we have five characters. Six characters. Six actors in the show who ostensibly can carry an entire episode. That’s rare in television. That’s really rare. So, you had Claudia. Claudia can carry. You got Amanda, Mike and Chris who can carry. And Beau Bridges who can carry. So now you’ve got six or seven characters who can carry entire episodes as opposed to the beginning where you had Rick and then you had other actors learning. So, it becomes a rare thing for a show where you have that many actors that can carry a storyline and so you’re allowed to expand out. And you’ve gotta be cognizant of the fact that when you’re in that situation, every day is not gonna be all about you and your character. It’s gonna be about the ensemble, it’s gonna be about the show, it’s gonna be about the center of the show which is the gate.

David Read:
Yeah, absolutely. And one of the more amazing experiences that you were offered was this little trip to the Arctic.

Ben Browder:
It was cool.

David Read:
I’ve prepared a little surprise for you. Let me see if I can bring that person in here. Give me just one moment.

Ben Browder:
Oh my…!

David Read:
Barry Campbell.

Ben Browder:
The Navy makes an appearance.

Barry Campbell:
I just surfaced and I just wondered if you were gonna recognize me without my fur hat on.

Ben Browder:
Well, I did see you in San Diego afterwards.

Barry Campbell:
That’s right.

Ben Browder:
And you still have a hat on. We can show our mops. Go ahead. There you go. I recognize you now. That’s Barry Campbell.

David Read:
Ladies and gentlemen. Without this man, Stargate would not have gone to the Arctic for Continuum and given us one of the coolest experiences as an audience. So, Barry, thank you for being here with us for a few minutes and for making that happen. For having the guts to show up to a convention in front of Martin Wood, and John Smith, and saying, “You wanna go to the Arctic?”

Barry Campbell:
I’ll tell you. It was a fluke. I am a pretty shy guy. But I made the offer, not knowing whether I could capitalize on it or not, went back and sold it to my boss, and he sold it to Big Navy, and it worked out.

Ben Browder:
Barry, did you know that Big Navy was gonna put that background check on all of us. Because every time I went through security at an airport the several months before and for months afterwards, they searched my bag every single time. I didn’t realize it went so deep. But this security stuff you guys get going on is real.

Barry Campbell:
It is. It’s a real thing. You hear about it, you see it in the movies, but they’re serious. They’re serious about [inaudible].

Ben Browder:
[inaudible]

Barry Campbell:
Especially, because most of the folks coming up were Canucks.

Ben Browder:
We had all the Canadians, right? And the other thing was that they let us on a nuclear submarine.

Barry Campbell:
The first idea for this was to get about five or so people up to the Arctic for an overnight [stay] and maybe let them see a submarine and sign some autographs and take some pictures and then shuffle them away. And it just grew and grew. And I think Martin Wood had a… I mean, Brad Wright had a big part of that because he wrote the script such that the Navy saved the Air Force. And when the Navy saw that, they thought, “Oh, well, let’s just do something here.” I said, “Can we get them on the submarine?” And they said, “Well, we’ll probably be able to that.” They came back later after that script was there and they said, “Do you think they’d like to film on the submarine?” And my boss and I said, “Sure. They would love it, I guess.” So, it just blossomed and blossomed.

Ben Browder:
The whole thing turned into Stargate Navy Survivor in the Arctic. You got there [and] it was insane. It was 40 [degrees] below, it doesn’t matter if it’s Fahrenheit or Celsius, and you just walking from the plywood shed where we slept to the mess hall, [and] your face would freeze. It was insane. You got Amanda and I wandering out on the ice, not knowing how thick the ice is while [the] helicopter disappears over the horizon. You’re thinking, “Well, I guess this is real now.” You go out at night to take a leak, and you scan the horizon with your flashlight for eyes because the polar bears were roaming and hunting on the ice. I was, like, “Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea?” It was absolutely astounding and fabulous.

Barry Campbell:
I tried to tell people that there’s an actual danger of death in doing this. It’s not just, like, going on location. It’s a whole different thing.

Ben Browder:
The two years before they had a snowmobile go through the ice into the water. And you’re not gonna survive when you go in the water.

Barry Campbell:
No. You get in that water, [and] 15 seconds later, if you’re not pulled out, you’re frozen.

Ben Browder:
That was insanity. Amanda and I still talk about it. Occasionally I’ll send her a picture of us in the Arctic just to go, “Can you believe we actually were there? That’s insane.”

Barry Campbell:
It was tremendous. I was up in the helicopter when they were filming that scene, and the director of photography, his name will come to me, he’s got the camera hanging out the door. We made one pass, and he didn’t know where you were and he couldn’t get you centered in, so we figured out how to get you centered in the screen, came by for the second pass, “It’s OK. I got them. I got them right down. Holy crap. They’re making snow angels.”

Ben Browder:
That’s true. Amanda and I looked at each other, “We should just do snow angels instead of walk.” “What are they doing?” And [we’re] on our backs making snow angels in [a] place that no one would ever be again. It was a phenomenal experience. We could see the northern light in 360 degrees. It was awe-inspiring.

Barry Campbell:
I felt for you guys. When the sub was resurfacing, they had to make three passes in order to surface. And you guys were out there, it was, like, 40 or 50 [degrees] below, and you were there for five or six hours, waiting for them to make a successful resurfacing. And I was back in a warm hut, in charge of stuff, but in a hut, just wishing I was there with you but glad I wasn’t.

David Read:
What did that feel like, with the ice moving beneath your feet as this thing comes through. What is that experience like?

Ben Browder:
It was cold.

Barry Campbell:
Could you feel the submarine impact the ice?

Ben Browder:
It was really cold. Moving around is a good idea in the Arctic. Standing still on the ice is not a good idea.

Barry Campbell:
Getting your back to the wind.

Ben Browder:
There’s so many little things out there that can go wrong so fast that you’re literally hoping you haven’t made a mistake. The first day we did that where we shot, I made the mistake that I had left my boots on the floor the night before. And the cold comes up through the floor. Even if the hut is warm, the cold comes through, and it literally freezes your boots.

Barry Campbell:
Anything left on the floor will freeze.
Ben Browder:
Anything left on the floor will freeze solid. I just put my boots next to my bunk, and no one had told me, “You need to put your boots up in your bunk with you.” So, when I put the boots on that day, it’s cold and you kind of rashing out, “Oh, they’ll warm up.” No, they don’t warm up. I about lost a couple of toes that day because I was standing on the ice afterwards. There’s so many little things for your safety, and for your survival, that you have to pay attention to. It’s an incredible experience to be in that place. And we had all the help in the world. All we had to do was help clean up. We were doing mess hall. We were on the mess hall roster for cleanup duty. You just kind of mix in, and go, “Everybody’s here to survive together.”

Barry Campbell:
I’ll tell you what. When I told my staff that we’re gonna bring actors up and the film crew, they were throwing things at me. “We cannot have these people. We cannot babysit these folks all the time. We got work to do.” And I tried to convince them that, “These guys are professionals. They will fit in, and they’ll do what they need to do, and it’ll be fine.” And you arrived in, like, an afternoon, before dinner. I remember the first dinner, all the Stargate folks were at one or two tables and the rest of us were at all the other tables. And by breakfast the next morning everybody was all mixed together. And by lunch that day, my stuff was saying, “These guys are all right. They erased our names off the KP board so they could get in and do KP. They’re out mining ice. Where’d you get these guys?” So, it was good.

Ben Browder:
We went out with the sled. Water for the camp was provided by us going out with pickaxes and putting ice on a sled, and you come back, and you melt it so that people can stay hydrated. We did ice duty, we did KP, we did whatever was available on the roster. Because you’ve gotta contribute. You can’t be in that kind of environment and be a load on everybody else.

Barry Campbell:
It was a wonderful, wonderful experience. I’ll never forget it. I have a few regrets. I wasn’t able to get out and play as much as I wanted to because I had to be in charge, but I’ll never forget that experience. And part of the thing that I remember most is the look on your guys’ face. And how much you were enjoying it, and how much in awe you were, and how much you still remember it. And that really warms my heart.

David Read:
Yeah, for sure. I think we may have lost him there. The memories that you guys take away from this experience, they’ve got to stick with you forever. You’ve been given an opportunity so few people get. And you just gonna pinch yourself for the rest of your life that you got a chance to do it.

Ben Browder:
Stargate provided some remarkable opportunities. Honestly, Barry, I can’t actually side completely with the Navy because I have a son in the Air Force. But I love the Navy, and I love the Air Force. Air Force maybe get a little bit more of my love just because they’re responsible for keeping my young son safe right now.

Barry Campbell:
That’s cool. I’m OK with that.

Ben Browder:
You’re good with that?

Barry Campbell:
I’m good with that. Absolutely.

Ben Browder:
I did think about that I never know where he’s gonna be. He won’t tell me anything and then I’ll read about it in Stars and Stripes. Literally, recently he was down at North Station. He was down working out of North Station for a week, but I read about it in [Stars and Stripes]. “You’re at the North Station? What are you doing in San Diego? You’re at the Naval base.” They were doing a joint operations out of North Station, which is you guys.

Barry Campbell:
Yeah. North Island Air Base. That’s cool. What’s he do?
Ben Browder:
He flies. He’s a fighter pilot.

Barry Campbell:
No kidding. That’s awesome. He has my respect.

Ben Browder:
He may not deserve it, but I’ll give it to him.

David Read:
Barry, thank you so much for popping in and sharing some memories from that Arctic shoot. It means a lot to have you.

Barr Campbell:
My pleasure. I appreciate the invitation, and I’ll talk about this any old time.

David Read:
Thank you, sir. We’ll have you back this Season.

Ben Browder:
Thanks Barry. Great to see you, man.

Barry Campbell:
OK. See you later. Nice to see you Ben. Take good care.

David Read:
How do you get past an experience like that? It’s absolutely an extraordinary one. There are now words for a gift like that. Even just five or six days up there. I’m sure it changes your perspective on how you view yourself and your place in your world.

Ben Browder:
I’m a remarkably lucky human being.

David Read:
Absolutely.

Ben Browder:
I didn’t make that happen. It just fell in my lap.

David Read:
I have some questions from fans here. Let me see here. Jakub Olejarz, I’m gonna butcher this name Ben, so please correct me, “Can you share you experience working on the film Iké Boys? I watched it recently,” and he says it was excellent. Tell me about this.

Ben Browder:
The director of Iké Boys was a particularly huge Farscape fan. It’s a coming-of-age story set in the 90s [and] early 2000s about a kid who’s really into anime and manga, and it’s a coming-of-age story which involves fantastical elements. He’s a director who had studied in Japan and was living in Japan for years. So, he was merging these cultures of Oklahoma and Japan in rural Oklahoma. It was a beautiful and simple story, well told. And it was a lot of fun. I went to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, and hung out. It snowed. Not as cold as the Arctic but we don’t get a lot of snow here in Los Angeles County. It was great. And then COVID hit, like. Literally, it was the beginning of February 2020. And people are coughing in the airport and trying to stay away from one another. Nobody knows what it’s about. And I came back and lost my sense of smell.

David Read:
You did?

Ben Browder:
I think the whole crew and cast got sick in the filming of it. I think patient zero for COVID was the cast of Iké Boys. I don’t know. It was interesting time. And then the world shut down a month later.

David Read:
We rode the wave together. You joined the cast at the same time that Beau did, for Season Nine. And I remember you sharing the story, and I’ve wanted to ask you about this for years, about an anecdote about Beau. Because it’s a little bit of inside baseball technical. But it shines a light on his personality. You were talking about filming scenes with him where he would force cuts by turning or by changing… Can you tell me about this? And about working with Beau.

Ben Browder:
Beau’s a master. He understands how film and television is made from the inside out. He grew up in it. I’m sure his dad gave him some tips and tricks. The minute you got in[to] the scene with Beau, you knew you were wrestling with a bear. The first scene that I shot with him was the scene in Landry’s office. Whatever I thought I was gonna do when I came into the scene, I recognized what Beau was doing. [He] was forcing the cut to the things he thought [were] important. So, he comes in… And quite often in Stargate we’re sitting around a table [and] we’re not moving. And Beau says, “[Are] you OK if I just move around and set up my office while I’m doing this?” And I went, “Oh my, look at this.” Because he’s gonna move on and offline so while I’m speaking, he’s moving. And the camera has to kind of go with him because he’s changing the geography of the shot. And I’m standing there and I’m, like, “There’s only one tactic that I could be allowed.” Because obviously Mitchell is essentially at attention. He’s stuck there with his superior officer. So, my thing was, “I can’t move at all. I have to be locked, stocked, frozen, in order for the cut to work.” Otherwise, the scene’s not gonna work. And I’m, like, “OK Beau. It’s your scene. This is all about Landry. This is all about you.” Which is correct. It is the correct thing to do. But the fact that he knew it was correct, and he was doing it, and he was forcing the cut, and he knew how to do it, is literally Voodoo Baseball. That’s next level stuff of understanding how an actor can say, “This is important, and I’m gonna make sure that someone else doesn’t mess this up.” [He’s] a really smart actor. I was, like, “He knows what he’s doing. This man is not only a good actor. He knows how film and television is made.”

David Read:
That’s just it.

Ben Browder:
You learn from actors like that. I always watched older, experienced actors to learn the craft. And Beau was a master craftsman. Is a master craftsman.

David Read:
It’s almost 3D chess because he’s anticipating how the edit is gonna go in post-production.

Ben Browder:
One hundred percent.

David Read:
And [I] imagine, as a performer, depending on how neurotic you are, you probably can’t do that. “Oh, what’s this gonna look like later?” You have to be in a moment with your fellow performers and making sure you get every line right. Because this is science fiction and it’s not easy to do. It’s a language all on its own.

Ben Browder:
It’s part of a very complicated dance. If you look at great dancers, they’re not just hitting the steps. They’re doing that while carrying a performance through the technical side of it. Great actors, experienced actors, if they haven’t learned how to do that, then they’re missing a very important skill set. Because the same techniques that you learn can also teach you how to save time on the day. An experienced actor will come on a set, [and] they can make simple little adjustments which are gonna save you 15-30 minutes out of your day. And a less experienced or less skilled actor is gonna cost you time. It’s no just, “Oh, I flubbed the line.” It’s not, “Oh, I didn’t have a great performance.” It’s literally, “OK, now we gotta pick up our lights, we gotta move around here, we gotta cover this.” And there’s a technical craft inside all of the other things that you’re doing. With Stargate, they’ve been doing it for eight years. They knew what the technical model was. They were very attuned to, “Oh, we’re gonna do this. We’re gonna do that. We’re gonna save money and time here, and then everybody gets to go home on time. Production saves money. Makes money for the company. Yadda yadda yadda. And if I do this, it’s gonna make the scene better.” You learn those tricks over time, and Beau was one hundred percent masterful.

David Read:
Another master that you had on, whom we recently lost, was Louis Gossett Jr. What an extraordinary man. Those two could have easily played General Landry. Lou as well. I remember when Season Nine was coming about, the production was really blessed with an embarrassment of riches. You’ve got these two people who are interested. Their families apparently watch the show. What do you do with these guys? What was it like with being there with Louis Gossett Jr. Another maestro.

Ben Browder:
It’s a little intimidating. You’re, like, “An Officer and the Gentleman. Oh, my, that’s Louis Gossett Jr.” One of the great joys that one has is working with people who are just a lot better than you, and a lot more experienced than you. I just be, like, “I’m playing football and Brett Favre is a quarterback?” Or “Tom Brady’s the QB?” After a period of time, they just see things that normal human beings don’t. And they were talented to begin with. It’s really quite a remarkable experience to watch a master at work. It’s, like, going to a great restaurant with a master chef. You’re, like, “Man, this food just tastes different.”

David Read:
“And what can I do to up my game? What can I take away from just observing this? Standing back and observing them at play to make, at the very least, their jobs a little bit easier if I’m sharing a scene?”

Ben Browder:
It’s kind of a joy. You have to trust that you’re gonna learn something from it and be humble enough to go, “I don’t know everything and what can I learn from this? Am I even capable of doing what they’re capable of doing?” The fact is, I’ve worked with enough actors, like, “I can’t do that. That’s just next level stuff.” Recognizing talent, I’ll hesitate to use the word genius, but recognizing talent and expertise in any endeavor requires a certain amount of humility, and if you don’t have that after having worked with those people, then I think you may have missed something. Maybe. I don’t know. What [am I?] I’m a guy who makes up things for a living. I’m a fantasist. What do I know about reality? I don’t even know what Google wants me to know.

David Read:
Exactly. We’re all turning into drones. We gotta be careful, man.

Ben Browder:
I’m just working on [inaudible].

David Read:
They’re gonna be running the place in 50 years.

Ben Browder:
Working on my epistemic humility, man. That’s all. I’m sure I don’t know. Ma dad knew more than me. My grandma knew more than me. If I make it long enough, maybe I’ll get close. But I’m making no pretenses.

David Read:
Another one that we lost in the past few years, who was your chief opposition besides the Ori in Seasons Nine and Ten, was Cliff Simon. That man knew how to wear clothes. And act. And just sucked the air out of the room when he spoke. Can you tell me a little about working with Cliff?

Ben Browder:
Cliffy was great. His performance as Ba’al was spot on. With Cliff [being] taken far too early, the only thing I can say is, at least he was where he loved being, which was out in the water, wind surfing. I don’t know what happened. It’s a tragedy. And we lost Julian Sands.

David Read:
Another tragedy.

Ben Browder:
And I’m pretty sure he was out where he wanted to be which was hiking in the mountains. We are here but a brief period. Cliff was a lovely guy, and an interesting conversationalist. A good human being. What can you say? At least he was where he wanted to be when he left us.

David Read:
Absolutely. For sure. Hidline02, “What do you think happened to Cam back in the 1930s after he killed Ba’al?” Do you think he settled down? There’s a nod at the end of Continuum that Cameron knows something because he’s got the photo in his locker of the two men. How do you interpret that, Ben? I’m curious to know.

Ben Browder:
I just imagine he led an interesting life and went to all the interesting places that were available to him. If you had knowledge of what’s happened in the last 30 years, where would you choose to be? Would you go to Berlin for the fall of the Wall? Would you go to these places to witness great acts, and great people? That’s what I imagine in my head that he did. He went, “Well, I’m here so I’m gonna make the most of this, and I wanna see what happened when Oppenheimer lit off the bomb.” It would be a grand adventure. If you’re stuck, you might as well build a cool and interesting life. And at some point, he might have just said, “I’m gonna settle down. Los Angeles is gonna be a great place in 1960. I’m gonna live there.” Or whatever it is. There are all these things that happened through time. And if you’re stuck, what would you do? Cameron Mitchell is a bit of an adventurer. I imagine that he was probably trying to sneak his way into the Air Force and work at Edwards Air Force Base. He was probably trying to get on the ground floor of…

David Read:
Test piloting?

Ben Browder:
[Inaudible] trying to get on the ground floor of the space program. He’s probably trying to be a Mercury astronaut but if nothing else then at least be there for the launch. So, from a Cameron Mitchell’s standpoint, that would be the series I’d wanna see. Cameron Mitchell dealing with the [Star]gate and the whole thing in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. I think that would be cool.

David Read:
Because the Air Force had it.

Ben Browder:
There’s a lot of cool stuff that’s actually happened in history. Cameron Mitchell of the Bay of Pigs, I don’t know. I think if it’s not Stargate, there’s a potential cool series elsewhere where someone… The typical thing is you time hop. It’s the Quantum Leap thing. I don’t know if I’ve seen a series where someone is just stuck, and they can’t get back. And they know they can’t go back because there’s another version of them anyway. I think it’s an interesting story.

David Read:
I’m gonna deliberately tell a tale out of school here. I think it’s been long enough. I was a part of the marketing team for Stargate: Origins. And that is a story that takes place just before Captain Mitchell and the Achilles pick up the Stargate. And in the last scene of that film, the Achilles crew is packing up the gate. And in the background, you can see personnel who are dressed in the exact same, pretty close, clothes of that crew. And I remember talking with a bunch of the other folks at MGM at the time, “We have got to get Ben in for a cameo.” And it was just such a lost opportunity. Were you made aware of that? I couldn’t just call you and ask. There was politics. Do you recall this at all?

Ben Browder:
Yeah, I remember when that was happening. I can’t remember how it didn’t unfold. I think that there was material sent that was about it that was, like, “No, it’s just a cameo, it’s not Mitchell,” and I went, “No, it needs to be written as Mitchell. Otherwise, the fanbase is just not gonna accept it.” I felt that whatever it was that was presented was out of canon, to be honest. It was unclear in the material…. “Wait, it this the captain of the Achilles?” Because that’s who Mitchell would be. That’s who he was. I was, like, “No, this is just this and this. That’s not canon. I don’t wanna be a part of something that is not canon.” That was my understanding at the time.

David Read:
OK. So, you were presented [with] an offer.

Ben Browder:
I don’t know if that was an offer or just, “Are you interested?” I don’t remember all the details of it.

David Read:
That would have been a cool opportunity.

Ben Browder:
I’m sure that chain of whispers gets contorted by the time it gets to my doorstep. I just was unsure as to what it was and whether it was part of the canon or not.

David Read:
Absolutely.

Ben Browder:
That’s kind of weird that I would be obsessed with canon but my interaction with fanbase of Stargate and Farscape over the years makes me very respectful of the audience, and the continuation of the story. And I didn’t wanna break that.

David Read:
Yeah. It’s your work. You can be a little bit protective of it. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Ben Browder:
It’s not my work. It’s work of thousands of people over time. It’s the inheritance of millions of people who watch the show. You’re protecting a story that’s in my head, and in the writer’s head, but also in the head of the audience. I never wanna be sloppy with that.

David Read:
For sure. Jeremy Heiner, “Do you have any memories of the Atlantis crossover?” When you were walking over to Stage Five to do Atlantis for Season 10. The Pegasus Project, I believe it was.

Ben Browder:
Yeah, although technically that was SG-1. I never did Atlantis. I think I’m the only person in SG-1 that didn’t.

David Read:
Pretty close.

Ben Browder:
The only [member of] SG-1 that never crossed over.

David Read:
Claudia didn’t either.

Ben Browder:
Yeah, but technically she was outside of the chain of command. Chain of command is very important. It was fun to go over and play with them, for sure. And it was interesting treading in their territory.

David Read:
For sure. Absolutely. Cameron Larocque, “Ben, do you have a favorite Stargate episode that you filmed, aside from Antarctica?”

Ben Browder:
I really enjoy the season ender from Season Nine where I got to roll in the mud and swing a sword. And be a nine-year-old boy, swinging a sword. Not particularly well. But that day, when we came to do the interiors after we had shot in the mud, I was so caked in mud and filth. Literally, in preparation for shooting the interior scenes, they go, “Just go outside and roll in the mud and come back in.” So, I would go outside, roll around the mud. This is, you know, the high level of art that we’re about… That was authentic Vancouver mud on me. In the interior [scene], it dried up.

David Read:
Was it supposed to be that muddy? I forget.

Ben Browder:
No. I don’t know what they thought. It was three-inch-thick mud. It was hard to stand up and move. I just remember having a great time with that. I enjoyed a lot of it because I had a great opportunity to be with Mike [Shanks], and banter with Mike, and us work together. There was a certain part… Not only were they keeping Claudia and I separate [but] there was a certain element of keeping Mike and I separate because they were afraid the audience wouldn’t be able to discriminate which one of us was the middle-aged white dude. And Mike was not middle-aged. He’s younger than me by a decade plus. It’s just, like, “How can you not tell us apart?” I know white guys look alike but… So, it was sporadic that Michael and I got to spend time, and I felt that we had an easy and comfortable working relationship, and we could banter back and forth. That I enjoyed.

David Read:
Absolutely. That was fun to watch. What was it like doing the old age makeup for Unending?

Ben Browder:
It’s uncomfortable. Varying degrees of uncomfortable.

David Read:
Did you look in the mirror and see family members?

Ben Browder:
Yeah. There’s a bit of my uncle in it when I look at it. I go, “It’s a little bit, like, my uncle.” Mostly around here [pointing eyes and forehead], you really start to notice that, and you go, “Oh. I’m that crazy guy? Where am I gonna end up?”

David Read:
The Time Prophet wanted to know, “Did you feel a little bit, like, Wayne Pygram from Farscape with all those hours as Scorpius?”

Ben Browder:
That was on Farscape, and I dressed as Scorpius that I feel, like, Wayne Pygram. I have no idea how Wayne Pygram feels. But I certainly discovered that when you’re in a heavy prosthetic [or] anytime you’re in a really weird prosthetic, people treat you completely differently. It’s a bit of a shock to the system. If you’re in old age makeup… When I’m in old age makeup and I’m coming out of my trailer, if someone had come to fetch me, which sometimes happens, the A.D. would be holding their hand up to help me down the steps, reflexively. And then you go, “Oh, so this is what it’s like to be 90 something years old.” People view you differently. If you’re in the prosthetic and look like an evil alien, there’s a human being inside the suit, but people stop treating you like a human being. They treat you completely differently. It’s a bit, like, if you grow a really big feral beard during COVID, and people see you, they react differently to you. It’s, like, “Why are people giving me extra room when I walk through supermarket?”

David Read:
It’s your force field. Did you grow out a beard?

David Read:
Yeah. I periodically grow beards, mustaches, whatever. I had a true COVID feral face. It’s massive. Wild looking. Nobody in L.A. was getting a haircut. They put the guy that did my haircut out of business. You couldn’t go get your haircut, so I had wild hair and a big furry beard. People avoid you. Same thing happens when you’re in a heavy prosthetic. People treat you strange[ly]. It’s a little deranged. Because you get used how people react to you, and your face, and your demeanor, and your age, and all of these things that when it quickly shifts, people react to you differently and it’s disconcerting.

David Read:
CarlosTakeshi, “Where is Cameron now?” Cameron Prime. Where do you think he is?

Ben Browder:
Prime or Secundus? Technically speaking, Cameron would be at the end of his Air Force career.

David Read:
So General.

Ben Browder:
If he stayed in. Let me think how old Cameron is now. He was 35 so he’s 54 [inaudible]

David Read:
69.

Ben Browder:
Cameron’s at the tail of his Air Force career which means, and I’m assuming he stayed in, there’s a lot of options. He could be in Washington.

David Read:
He could be flying a ship.

Ben Browder:
He could still be a Colonel. Specialized. He could be running the SGC, which is very likely [that] he’d come back for a tour doing that. I just depends on where he is in the cycle. That’s one of the things that happens in the military. For a while you’re in the saddle, and then you’re in the seat. You’re in the comfy chair. There’s a lot of different places you could end up [in]. Who knows? Seriously, if you[‘re] coming out of the SGC with that kind of classified stuff you could end up in Spec Ops and running a shop. Although, at a much higher level. Or not. I don’t know. Good question. I don’t think he’s Tom Cruise. I don’t think he’s Maverick where somehow, he’s managed to avoid promotion. I think a stint running Stargate Command would be a realistic thing.

David Read:
Do you hope he’s found love?

Ben Browder:
Well, how do we know he hadn’t already found love and lost it? Does he have family?

David Read:
With Amy Vandenburg stuff in Bounty, he was smooching on her pretty strong and there was a seed for the future that they were gonna stay in touch. I hope that he’s happy.

Ben Browder:
I hope so. Or I hope at least his life is interesting. Maybe he’s down running a weapons school at Nellis. I don’t know.

David Read:
Last one.

Ben Browder:
I like to think that he’s making an adventurous use of his time. Both Prime and Secundus.

David Read:
We’re gonna wrap up with moderator Tracy, “I just wanted to say thank you for being here today. It was such a treat. I thought you made Seasons Nine and Ten absolutely phenomenal. You and Claudia were absolutely great. Any projects that you are currently working on?” Anything you wanna let us know about to keep our ears to the ground?”

Ben Browder:
I‘m actually gonna do some work here at the end of the month. Until the cut is in, I don’t generally talk about things. I once signed a Marvel NDA and it scared me so much that I generally don’t talk about what’s coming up. It’ll come out when it comes out. And what’s on the schedule, I haven’t shot yet so I don’t know. I’m not flogging product, I’m here to talk about Stargate. Speaking of which, I was at a track meeting yesterday [and I’m] standing there, [and] there’s another coach standing there, and he looks at me at he goes, “Are you Ben Browder?” “Yeah.” And he goes, “Stargate. Man. Stargate. So, I got a question. Is there gonna be more Stargate?” And I’m gonna give you the answer I gave him, “I don’t know.” That was the first question out of his mouth. And then we talked about the show for about 10 minutes. What a privilege it is to be standing somewhere and somebody goes, “Stargate. Let’s talk about Stargate.”

David Read:
Absolutely. There is something about it that people continue to resonate with. I think that you guys created work that means things to people and is also entertaining. And when you can cross those two things together, it’s really cool.

Ben Browder:
It was a good experience on the day, and it’s been a great experience running through life. I’m very privileged. I’m very grateful for the experience that I’ve had with the show, and with the fandom. What a remarkable thing.

David Read:
Ben, I’m glad we got to catch up. I appreciate you coming on.

Ben Browder:
Thank you, man. I appreciate catching up. Next time we’ll do it in a park again.
David Read:
I’ll come out and see you. For sure. You take care of yourself, all right?

Ben Browder:
I will do the best I can, too. And enjoy living in Nashville. Do your fans know [that] you live in Nashville?

David Read:
Yes, they do.

Ben Browder:
I didn’t wanna out you, like a refugee.

David Read:
You wanna know something funny? I came about a few years ago. I was in a subway, and I was talking with someone behind the counter about podcast and everything else. And I mentioned Stargate, and one of the guys making my sandwich went, “David?” What are the odds?

Ben Browder:
Podcasts are an amazing thing, and you were doing them before podcasts were a thing.

David Read:
You touch people and you never realize it.

Ben Browder:
It’s a remarkable existence that we are encountering. Who knows what’s next?

David Read:
Absolutely. Ben, you be well, sir. You take care of yourself.

Ben Browder:
Thank you, David. I appreciate it, man. Be good.

David Read:
Be well. Ben Browder everyone. Cameron Mitchell in Stargate SG-1. I got to talk with him before the show I think even went into production for Season Nine. And I called him, and I think he was in the middle of his rewatches. Just absolutely cool guy. I appreciate you all tuning in. We’ve got coming down the pipe next week, Episode 250. This is gonna be David Hewlett and Kate Hewlett. Rodney McKay and Jeannie Miller are gonna be joining us for our 250th episode, live, this coming Saturday, May 25th. If you enjoyed this episode, and you wanna see more content like this on YouTube, please hit that Like button. It does make a difference with the show and will continue to help us grow our audience. And if you want to, please share this video with a Stargate friend. Please consider that. And if you wanna get notified about future episodes, click the Subscribe icon. Giving the bell icon a click will notify you the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last minute guest changes. And clips from this livestream will be released over the course of the next several days on both Dial the Gate and gateworld.net YouTube channels. Summer, are you still with me? So, Summer, I have something that… Turn on your camera. And Ben, you can see this, too. I don’t usually do these at the end of the show but Summer, you came across something really cool.

Summer:
[inaudible] I usually go to this little stand that makes dragons. They’re little silicon dragons, and we started a little collection. So, we always go by and see if there’s anything new. Well, yesterday when we went by, I spotted something, and I pointed it out to my husband. I’m, like, “Oh my God. Look, look, look.” And the attendant there goes, “Stargate.” And I went, “Yeah, you know Stargate?” And she’s started talking all kinds of fandom jibe, and she looked at me confused, and I went, “Wait, do you know Stargate?” She goes, “No, that’s just the name of our model.” And this is the model that she showed me. And it’s of course a Goa’uld parasite but she didn’t know the show. She just knew that this was the name of the model they sold. Because she wasn’t the maker of the dragon.

David Read:
Isn’t that cool? They’ve got an actual Goa’uld. And you can wrap this around your hand, right?

Summer:
Yeah, you can wrap it around. It’s a little flexible so you see people with it wrapped around their arm, like that. It was really neat, and they’re based out of Houston, and it’s called Dragon Pets. So, you can go to dragonpets.com, or their Instagram which is @mydragonpets. I don’t think the Goa’ulds are out on their website just yet because they’re a new model, but they do have their contact info listed there so you can write them and ask, if you wanna purchase one of these little guys. But they’re so cute. As long as it doesn’t attack me in my sleep, I’ll be OK.

David Read:
Or you don’t wake up with glowing eyes. Thank you, Sommer. I’m David Read for Dial the Gate and we will see you on the other side.