Before he became Carl “Helo” Agathon in the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica, one of Tahmoh Penikett’s early roles in television was as the Replicator Third in SG-1 Season Six’s “Unnatural Selection.” We are delighted to welcome him to our show to talk about his brief time on Stargate, as well as his broader career in some of the best television ever created.

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
1:18 – Opening Credits
1:48 – Welcome
1:58 – Guest Introduction
2:54 – Helo After the Battlestar Miniseries
6:45 – Edward James Olmos in Blade Runner
8:58 – Promises of Recurring Roles
10:13 – Cop Show Bad News
11:40 – Ron Moore Wants to Talk
13:00 – David’s Relationship with Battlestar Galactica
16:00 – “Unnatural Selection”
18:58 – Getting the Call
19:49 – Amanda Tapping
20:20 – What Is a Human Being?
21:53 – Robotics Today
23:42 – William Gibson
27:21 – More Audiobooks?
28:15 – Supernatural
31:12 – The Next Galactica
33:57 – Dollhouse
40:03 – More Stunt Work?
42:00 – 87eleven Stunt Group
44:27 – Thank you, Tahmoh!
45:52 – Post-Interview Housekeeping
48:45 – End Credits

***

“Stargate” and all related materials are owned by MGM Studios and MGM Television.

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Dial the Gate – The Stargate Oral History Project. My name is David Read. I really appreciate you joining me for this episode. I have someone very special for you today. I’ve been a huge fan of his work ever since Battlestar Galactica – Tahmoh Penikett, Helo! But we know him in this universe as Third. How are you, sir?

Tahmoh Penikett:
I’m well. Thanks for having me, man. I’m excited to talk to you guys. I actually don’t think in my entire professional career – well over 20 years – I’m not sure that I’ve ever done just a Stargate-specific podcast.

David Read:
I don’t think so.

Tahmoh Penikett:
I think this is the first.

David Read:
Yeah, well, I appreciate having you, and I appreciate everything that you have contributed to the sci-fi universe. It is a body of work – not the least of which is, you know, a forefather of the human race. So, you know…

Tahmoh Penikett:
You’re welcome.

David Read:
And, I think – correct me if I’m wrong – I believe that the fans have a lot to do with this. Because my understanding is that the miniseries aired, Season One gets into pre-production, and the fan reception was like, “Where’s Helo? What’s going to happen to Helo?” And they’re like, “What do you mean? He’s dead.”

Tahmoh Penikett:
“The guy’s already doing another show!”

David Read:
“Bombs do that to people.”

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah, nuclear bombs.

David Read:
And it was the interest from the community that they’re like, “You know what? If we had these two stories going…” You know? And it was kind of like your own show.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Main, you know, it really was. It was this storyline that was taking place on Caprica, and it took you outside of the ship and the main storylines that were going on there. And people loved it. And it was exciting. Like, I could take myself outside of the show because I was such a fan of the first few episodes when I read them. And when they… briefly – ‘cause some people haven’t heard this story, probably in the SG world – so, for me, I did the miniseries, we did that for almost four months. It was like filming a feature, right? It was four hours originally.

David Read:
Wow.

Tahmoh Penikett:
The miniseries was four hours. So, it’s like two features back-to-back. So, we spent a whole spring and summer together filming. We became very close doing this brand-new project. But for me, I never envisioned it going beyond what it was – the way it was on paper. That said, Michael Rymer, our director and one of our producers – brilliant director, love Michael Rymer – right away, he was trying to integrate me more into scenes, ’cause I was only written into a few. And he was like, “No, you should be here, you should be here.” So, he was putting me in there more. Once he saw my work, he was like, “No, I want this guy in here more,” which was very flattering. So, I was all about it. And then, you know, it came to – funny enough, it was one of our last days – and we shot the iconic scene where, you know, Boomer and I are trying to get off the planet, and all the civilians are rushing the Raptor, trying to get on. There are nuclear explosions happening in the background, and people are rushing us. It’s an amazing scene. We shot out in this field in Langley, and it was just one of those magical days, man. I’ve been doing this over 20 years, but it’s one of the best days I’ve had, ever. The extras were exceptional. You know, James Callis was in the middle of the crowd running with them. They ran over a field – they literally had these extras run over the top of the hill. So, you see, you know, these hundred extras, looking like civilians all desperate. Everybody was committed to the role too, running over this field. And we’re right beside a Raptor in the middle of a field. When they go above and beyond like that, when they put you in the environment, for an actor, it’s a dream. It makes it so real because there’s a part of you, when you’re in a studio, that’s always conscious of it, you know? And when you’re out in the elements… they just did such an incredible job. And I remember the day just went so perfectly. You know, it’s the hero shot of Helo giving up his seat, and then Sharon flies away and all that. But I had already booked a Canadian cop series, one of the longest-running ones, and I was going to go on to that show after this. So for me, it was done. You know, after that iconic scene and this amazing ride that I’d had for this three or four months with these people, I’d be moving on to a different project. But I was satisfied with it. I’m like, “The guy’s a hero. He gave up his life.” He gave it up to the planet’s genius because he’s going to be better for what’s left of humanity. What more of a role could you ask for? It’s an iconic hero role, and it tells so much about Helo and who he is. So, I was done with it. I felt good. But Edward James Olmos came up to me after we finished that day. Andhe pulled me aside… and you have to understand – I’ve told this story many times – but I grew up watching him. He’s one of the reasons I wanted to act when I was a child. Little guy – I remember my father taking me to “Blade Runner” and it blowing my mind.

David Read:
Amazing.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Blowing my mind. Yeah. And I couldn’t stop thinking about that film. But I couldn’t stop thinking about him and his performance. And I kept asking my dad, I was like, “Yeah, but what about that guy? Like, I want to know more about him.” Because he’s such a brilliant actor. He’s only in the film so many times, but every time he’s there, you cannot take your eyes off him. And all you’re doing is thinking about: “What’s his story?” ‘Cause there’s so much going on with him, right?

David Read:
He has information that we don’t have in that film.

Tahmoh Penikett:
So much information. He really does. And over Harrison – you can see Harrison Ford, as an actor, I was watching and going, “Man, this guy…” There’s something very intimidating about this dude. And so, to actually be on a series and act with Eddie [Edward James Olmos]- I was still so incredibly intimidated by him, but also just like just fanboying out. I was just so grateful too. I was oozing with gratefulness. I was like, “look at me, I’m beside the great Edward James Olmos!” And Eddie was there that day just to watch me. He wasn’t in any of the scenes. He wanted to watch those scenes ’cause they were such an important part of the miniseries. So he was just there to watch the work. And you’d think that put more pressure on you, but it was one of those things where I was like, “I’ve got to show up and do the best work I’ve ever done because everyone’s here, and this is all about this day.” But that day and that scene, David, was what I auditioned for.

David Read:
Oh.

Tahmoh Penikett:
And that audition, when I saw those sides, I read it once – very young in my career. I didn’t have a professional career at that point. I’d trained for years as an actor, but I didn’t have a film career at that point. I remember reading those sides and thinking: “just get me in the room.” I just… I understand this guy 100%. I understand the scene. I know what he’s about. I know what he’s made of. I know his integrity, his generosity, his… the altruistic, brave individual he is. Get me in the room. That’s all I could think was, I wanted in the room. And so when we were finally doing that scene, and I finished it, and Eddie James Olmos comes up to me, he’s like, “Tahmoh, I want to talk to you.” And he goes, “Listen, man, producers loved your work. They loved you. You did excellent work here, and they’re going to try and bring you back, hopefully.” And I was like…

David Read:
OK!

Tahmoh Penikett:
And he goes, “I’m fighting for you.” He goes, “It’s not set, but like, I’m fighting for you.” And he basically said that. So the thing is, in a lot of ways, I think Eddie was just saying that. I think sincerely, but I think he was saying it, but he was probably already voicing it to the producers like, “This kid’s doing some great work. This is an amazing role, and we’re knocking him off? Like, we’re killing him here?”

David Read:
And we have to establish [that] actors get this all the time: “Oh, it could be recurring.” You know, all the time. And so you have to kind of protect yourself. Even if it’s an idol who’s telling this to you.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Exactly! So even though Eddie was telling me, there was not one part of me that was like – and I wasn’t being negative – but there wasn’t a part of me where I was like, I can put any weight into this. Even though I was young in my career, I understood that at that point. I had friends who had acted, and people who had been in the business, and I’ve always been… I’ve always really followed people’s careers and their choices and stuff. I’d like to think that I had some sense of how things work, you know, early on. And so I was very flattered, but I wasn’t putting any weight on it. And I also knew that I was going on to do another show. So I did that show. And I felt grateful about that. It was… I don’t even know how many months later, man. It was six months, maybe even almost a year. Like, it was a long time. I thought I was done with Battlestar. And I was having my first pilot season in L.A., and it wasn’t going very well. I was going out for too many auditions and just not prepared for how competitive and stressful it is. Being in the room when you’re trying to memorize, like, three auditions in a day – it was too much. In all honesty, my manager was… he was pushing me too much and getting me to do too much and I wasn’t capable of that. You can’t do too many things in one day, especially when you’ve only had so much time to prepare. And I was having an especially bad week. And then the showrunner from the cop show… I remember taking some solace. I was like, “you know what? Even if this season doesn’t work out, I’m going to go do another season of this cop show.” And then the the showrunner called me up, and he was like, “Hey man, I got some bad news. We, we got canceled.” I was like, “What? After nine years?” And he’s like, “Yeah, Tahmoh, I’m so sorry, man. It was great. We had a great time.” And I was like, “OK, buddy. It was good to talk to you.” And I got off the phone. I’m like, “man, if this is a sign – maybe this is – maybe I shouldn’t be doing this.” Like, it’s – I’ve had such a hellish week of auditions. It was so bad. I’ve questioned whether I can even act. And I had a couple more days of this, and then my manager calls me up, and he’s like, “Ron Moore wants to talk to you.” And I’m like, “Ron Moore? Battlestar Galactica?” And he’s like, “Yes.” And I’m like, “Tell him I want to talk to him right now. I’m available. I’ll drop whatever I’m doing.” Ron got on the phone and was like, “Hey, Tahmoh, listen. So we’re thinking…” and Ron didn’t give me the whole fan response thing. I found out about that afterwards. He told me after, and so did David Eick, the other executive producer.

David Read:
So he playing it cool.

Tahmoh Penikett:
They played it cool. Yeah. And he was very respectful, but he’s like, “Tahmoh, we see this storyline. You surviving this nuclear attack, and you’re running around on the planet. You’re trying to survive. And we have this whole storyline. We’d be honored if you come…” And like, Ron was basically asking me, being all… And I was like, “Yeah, Ron, let me think about it for a second.” I started laughing. I’m like, “Please! I would be honored to come back and play with you guys.” And the rest is history, man. And that first season was incredible. Like, you know, again, obviously I’m biased, but “33” – there’s a bunch of episodes in that first season that are iconic. Some of the best that have ever been done in sci-fi television. And, I’m so proud. I’m still to this day so grateful to have been a part of that amazing ride and that they gave me the opportunity. This little kid from Northern Canada who didn’t have a lot of experience, and they gave me a shot, man

David Read:
I’m going to take a moment for myself. I had not seen the miniseries. I had known it was going on, but I was heavily focusing on Stargate SG-1 at the time, so I missed the miniseries.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Understandable.

David Read:
But “33” was airing, and I turned it on, and I was blown away. And I’m working on something on the website, and I see you and I see Sharon, and I’m like, “Wait, she’s on the ship?”

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah.

David Read:
And I wrote to Darren and I said, “Why are there two of them?” He said, “You have to watch the show.” And that was it. Then I was hooked. It’s the second show that my dad and I connected over. The first one was Star Trek: The Next Generation, and then the second one was Battlestar Galactica through the end. And it’s just… Ron Moore is… and we want to sit down and we want to watch his alternate history show. The name is escaping me at the moment, but there’s something about him as a writer. There’s something about his storytelling. It’s rock solid, you know?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah.

David Read:
And unpredictable.

Tahmoh Penikett:
He’s fantastic. And you know, there’s so many… I could go on – we could talk Battlestar for days – but you know, I’ll tell you, there’s something that I’m so honored by, and Michael Hogan was so honored by, and most of the cast was. But how many service members came up to us and said, “This is one of the few shows that we ever see that really shows what it’s like, and it’s genuine, and we all connect to it.” Like, we had so many service members who were in the Middle East, they were in Iraq, they were in Afghanistan, they were working in different parts of the world, and they were like, “You guys get it. This show is everything to us. Like, we watch these DVDs over and over again. We love them.” And that meant a lot to us, man. People who were, you know, serving their country and putting their lives at risk. It’s the ultimate sacrifice. And they were out there giving us the the best nod we could ever get. Like, “Hey, your show genuinely captured it.” And part of the reason for that was Ron was in the Navy, right? So he had a real sense of what it’s like, and he was, from the jump – as was Michael Rymer in the miniseries – they were adamant that we really capture the camaraderie, the realities of being in the service.

David Read:
It is an aircraft carrier. It’s just set in space.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Exactly.

David Read:
That’s the only difference. The politics… and my dad flew Hueys in Vietnam…

Tahmoh Penikett:
Wow!

David Read:
…so he connected based on that. Saul Tigh was his favorite character. He says, “You have to have a good cop and a bad cop. That’s it.” He loved Saul. So, you know, there was just something about the show.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Man! How that man wasn’t nominated for an Emmy, I don’t know. I love Michael Hogan. God bless him. He is such an amazing actor. He’s one of our best. I just love… the work he did on the show – my God! Especially third and fourth season. Oh my god.

David Read:
Absolutely. Take me back to Stargate. Where are you in your career at this point? And tell me about getting that, and jumping on board – the sixth season of the show, just transferred to Showtime – huge success. Tell me what’s going through your mind. Obviously, you’re a sci-fi fan, sounds like.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Always. Always been a huge sci-fi fan ever since I was a kid. So I grew up in Northern Canada, and I didn’t, like a lot of other kids, I didn’t have cable. So CBC, you know, our nationally funded broadcasting corporation… it’s very limited programming. A lot of it’s Canadian. They get so many American shows, but one of the shows they did have for years, and they always re-aired, was the original Star Trek series, and I just loved it as a kid. I used to watch it all the time. I had episodes, like, memorized. And that was one of my early experiences in sci-fi television. But like I said, Blade Runner was a movie that was introduced to me when I think I was like 5 or 6. I was young, but my father took me to it, and I, you know, I fell in love with it. So do me a favor. What’s the math? How many years ago was that episode?

Tahmoh Penikett:
So, 2006… OK, so Season Six was filmed in 2002.

Tahmoh Penikett:
2002.

David Read:
So, 22 years, man.

Tahmoh Penikett:
There you go. So, you know what? That was very, very early in my career. It was one of my first gigs, I think. It really was. And it’s so funny because I watched the episode, which I haven’t seen since, and…

David Read:
Another robot. Another android.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah. It was just wild watching it. I was just really impressed, man. It reminds you how… just how damn good the chemistry between some of that cast was. Like Richard Dean Anderson, he’s got that, you know, affable tough guy, almost goofy, stupid thing like that he plays, you know? His comedic timing is really good. He’s borderline taking it over-the-top sometimes, but it’s part of his charm. And then when he drops in and he’s serious about things, he’s a badass. And I just love the energy between him and [Amanda] Tapping. And, of course, Chris Judge is just… those little things, little actor things. Like, they’ve got that scene in there where they’re eating the ice cream ‘cause it’s melting, right? You know? And Judge goes and just grabs his… you know, on the day, that was just a choice he made because that’s Christopher Judge. I miss Chris. I haven’t seen him for years. We used to do conventions together and a lot of press together back in the day, but I haven’t seen him forever.

David Read:
He’s doing well with God of War.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Is he doing well?

David Read:
Yeah.

Tahmoh Penikett:
What’s he up to?

David Read:
God of War. I think they’re working on the third one. I’m pretty sure. I’m not positive, but it’s just a matter of time. So, this audition just like any other for this part?

Tahmoh Penikett:
I think it was, but if you think about it I only had a few lines in the show. I basically had to look mean and stuff. So… I don’t remember who was doing the casting for it because it was so many years ago.

David Read:
Carol Kelsay?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Pardon me?

David Read:
Was it Carol Kelsay?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Could have been. Could have been.

David Read:
I’m sorry to cut you off.

Tahmoh Penikett:
No, not at all. So, yeah, I think I went in, simple line, banged it out, got the call. I remember being very excited because it was one of my first gigs, and just… I was well aware of Stargate SG-1 and the franchise that it was. And it was one of the main things that was happening in Vancouver at the time, so my agent told me I got the gig, and I was just excited about it. And, you know, the usual thing when you’re a young actor… I remember being on set and very just taken by everyone. You know, I remember watching Amanda [Tapping] in particular, because Amanda took the time to, like really say hi and, you know, talk to the younger cast who was playing all the Replicantors. And she was a sweetheart then, and she’s even… I’ve had the opportunity to work with Amanda, I think, a few times now as a director in the past five years.

David Read:
She’s amazing.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Oh, she’s fantastic, man. She’s such a… she’s a really, really talented actor, but she’s just a fantastic director, too.

David Read:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that it’s really interesting, the parallels of this story with what you would later go on to do in [Battlestar] Galactica is quite compelling, because the drive of this episode is, “What is a human being? What makes us worthy of survival?” You know, if I may borrow from [Cpt. Lee] Adama, and we betray the creature that is the most like us of all of them, and, you know, we save ourselves at his expense, and it comes back to bite us in the ass a couple of seasons later. I don’t know if you know, but she has a torture session put on by Fifth where he gets his comeuppance.

Tahmoh Penikett:
So, I wanted to ask about that because I assume that the way it ended… and I know how popular the episode was, because I’ve had a million fans doing conventions over the years who’ve approached me and been like, “Dude, that’s an amazing episode, and it’s so good.” But I didn’t… that’s the first time I think that somebody’s confirmed for me that there was a follow-up to that.

David Read:
He basically destroys them off-camera in a fit of rage, and once he gets out of the situation, he comes for her and he takes her captive. I’ll send you the episodes if you want to see them, because it’s quite insane.

Tahmoh Penikett:
The responsibility of playing God, right?

David Read:
That’s exactly right! You have a responsibility to that which you help create, you know? Whether they be Cylons or Replicators, and now, you know, with some of these Boston Dynamics robots, it’s just like, “Jeez, man, I don’t know.”

Tahmoh Penikett:
We’re there. We’re so close. It’s terrifying, the fact that they can’t even predict where AI is going to be within two years. Even the creators, the people working on the latest technology with artificial intelligence, many of them have voiced… they’re like, “We have no idea where it’s going to take us in two years.” We’re living in crazy times. I think we’re all a little worried about Skynet, but, yeah, we’re so close to it, man. The stuff that they’re doing at Boston Dynamics… and you gotta be honest – let’s be honest, David – the stuff that they’re showing us, that’s gotta be, what, 3, 4 years old at least?

David Read:
I hope so. You can get one of their dogs for $75,000 now. You can load things on it, it’ll follow you around, you can carry things up mountain passes with you. I mean, this doesn’t just go away, you know?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah.

David Read:
And it’s going to be a part of our society and culture for, you know, as far as we move forward. And I think that shows like Unnatural Selection and Battlestar are reminders for those who are wise enough to at least be aware of the potential of this technology: its pitfalls and its promises for us.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Absolutely.

David Read:
The only thing that I’m really worried about is when someone copies their brain into one of these things. If we can manage to do that, then I think that that would be a serious problem. But in terms of making something out of whole cloth, I don’t know. I think it’ll be a while before we develop true Artificial General Intelligence.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s going to be that far away.

David Read:
You don’t think so?

Tahmoh Penikett:
I don’t know. I just… I’ve always… I’ve read about it, I’ve been fascinated about it for years. Have you ever read any of William Gibson’s work?

David Read:
I love Neuromancer. I love Neuromancer.

Tahmoh Penikett:
That’s a classic. But, Williams, you know, he’s written 12 books since then, and what’s brilliant about him is he always writes… he usually, for most of his career, he’d be writing like 30, 40 years in the future – not too far, like something you could see within a lifetime. And most recently, and for years now, he’s written much closer to our time, and it’s fascinating to see the things that he’s predicted and seen come true. And that’s what I love about science fiction in general. I think we all do. All these ideas that seem so far-fetched to us, they’re all happening in our lifetime. We’re seeing these robotics. Like, could you imagine showing someone Atlas breakdancing and doing parkour even 10 years ago, 12 years ago? They would have been like, “What? That’s a robot?”

David Read:
Yeah, where’s the visual effects trickery for this?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah, it’s nuts, man. It’s nuts. One fascinating thing that William Gibson – I think he’s a genius… he actually lived in my neighborhood forever, and the two times I tried to talk to him, I was a bumbling idiot, so I just gave up. I see him now, and I’m just like, [bashful]. That’s all I can do. I can’t think of anything intelligent to say tp Williams, even though I know his books, you know, so well, and I love his writing, but he did this thing years ago, and I’ve heard about it and read about it in the last year twice now. What he did is – he said that, and again, this is when one of his book… I can’t remember which one it was… anyway, it was set about thirty, forty years in the future, and what Japanese corporations have done is that whenever one of their CEOs had passed away, they did a virtual…

David Read:
Brain mapping?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Kind of a brain mapping. It was, yeah, it was basically like an actual version of this CEO in character, and they had a room full of boxes — basically, like, screens — and you would go up if you were part of this corporation – these were huge corporations – and you could go and sit down and have a conversation and consult with that CEO. And the idea was that it was so accurate because they had uploaded everything and all information. And if you think about where we’re at in terms of just social media and how much they’re tracking – I mean, these things know… your shopping knows us better than we know ourselves. I was just thinking about that. There it is! You know, the choices we make, how much we share voluntarily. I would argue that they could probably make a pretty accurate AI version of any of us within the next 3, 4 years in a very disarming way, like, a scary way, I’m sorry. Because, like even the idea that they can copy our voices, our images. You look at what they’re doing with deep fakes, so imagine someone doing your face, your voice – which they can do already, quite well – and then actually having an AI that is uploaded – all your information, your entire Facebook profile, your entire social media profile, everything – and then it’s given, you know… it’s allowed to have a conversation with, let’s say, an elderly relative of yours. You put them on the phone or on a screen or on a computer, and maybe make the feed a little fuzzy so, you know, if there’s any inaccuracies with the CGI, it’s slightly off. And I’ll bet you…

David Read:
Yeah, “please send $10,000 through Western Union. I’m in this other country.” Yeah, no, it’s… and those kinds of scams have happened over text, but it’s just a matter of time before they just improve on ir. But also, you know, it’s extraordinary. It’s just insane what’s coming.

Tahmoh Penikett:
It’s scary, but it’s fascinating. It’s extraordinary. It’s all those things.

David Read:
Absolutely. I have some fan questions for you. Catherine [Cubbin asks]: are you going to be doing any more audiobooks? Fluff Miner was incredible. I’d love to hear more audio from you. And please say, ‘hi from Catherine in Wales, UK.’

Tahmoh Penikett:
Oh, Catherine, thank you so much! I love that you enjoyed it. I don’t have any plans right now, but I do plan on doing more. Like, I’m open to it. So if the right one comes to me, I’m game. Fluff Miner was a lot of fun. I think I did like 18 different characters, at least, in that book, all of them being a different accent from a different area. So that was a lot of fun, but it was also challenging. I definitely want to. I’m definitely planning on it. Right now, I’m not actively seeking it out, so if a gig comes to me, I’m game. But thank you for that, Catherine.

David Read:
Ian [asks]: Did Jared [Padalecki] and Jensen [Ackles] in Supernatural ever play any pranks on you? And PacManD3 [asks]: just wanted to know what it was like working with those guys on that show?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah, you know what? This is one of the most common questions that I get asked about those guys because they’re a little bit of pranksters and they like having fun, and they like taking the piss out of people. They didn’t play so many pranks on us, but, you know, there’s a lot of teasing going on. I tell this one a lot because, you know, I’m a very serious actor when I get into character, and when I’m on set, I try and stay in it as much as possible. You know, I’m not some weird method actor who’s, like, you know, getting drunk and then staying drunk for days while I’m playing a character or anything so extreme, or, you know, actually cutting myself for a scene. I just… I try and stay in it. I do a lot of, like, actor-y voice warm-ups and weird sounds in between takes. I’m very much in my head and by myself unless I’m running the scene with another actor before we get going. So, they do a blooper reel on SBN and they’ve got some golden ones of me, like, [shouting], you know, [lip trill] like all these weird things. And you can see the boys in the background, like, laughing away, making sure that the cameraman is filming me. I love those guys. I did, and I have done, conventions with them for over a decade now since I worked on that show. They’ve got one of the most active fandoms – you would not believe. I’ve been doing sci-fi conventions and genre conventions for 20 years, and 10 of them have been with those guys. And man, the Supernatural fandom is something special, man. They’re just… they love the shows, they love the experience, and Jared and Jensen, god bless them, uber successful – each of them – super busy, family men, dedicated husbands, have businesses outside of everything, but they still show up. They still go to these conventions because they love the fans. They love the experience. And we’ve done the world together. We’ve done the world. They play music. These shows, we go to different… I’ve been to the UK with them. I’ve been to Italy numerous times with them. We have a fantastic experience. So, they’re great. I love those two guys. I really do. I miss them. I haven’t seen them for a good year and a half, maybe, a year and a half, two years. It’s been a while, but I’m slated to do some shows with the gang again. I’m doing one actually next week in New Jersey, and then I’m doing…

David Read:
Wow.

Tahmoh Penikett:
I’m doing a few… I’m doing one in Chicago, and I’m doing one in Nashville. I’m doing one in Nashville. I’ll be around.

David Read:
Hey, I may come and see you!

Tahmoh Penikett:
Come and see me, man! I think that’s happening in November.

David Read:
Yeah, Nashville is getting huge, so there… Creation is definitely starting to put its fingers into the area, which is, as far as I’m concerned, is just great, because, you know, there are sci-fi fans here.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Of course.

David Read:
And you know, you get these dedicated fanbases for these shows that just won’t let them go: Supernatural, Stargate, Battlestar. I mean, there’s something to be said for all of them. Have you heard anything, in the Sam Esmail neighborhood, about the next iteration of Galactica?

Tahmoh Penikett:
Every once in a while I see something on Twitter or something else is tweeted to me like, “Hey, man, look at this new information.” I think Sam Esmail is a genius. I think he’s brilliant. I love his work, but I haven’t heard of anything solid coming out. I don’t know what that means. I’m just not privy to what’s happening in the back room and whether people aren’t satisfied or they don’t like the direction it’s going. I think with someone like Sam, I would argue very much like Joss Whedon, very much like Ron Moore, you want to let the man do his thing. Just let him take a run at it, let him bring his genius to it and see what he does, and let’s see if the audiences and people respond to it.

David Read:
Well, the thing that, I think, just gives me the biggest sigh of relief of anything is that he adored the Ron Moore Galactica era.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah.

David Read:
And so, you know, if he’s going to carry on whatever he’s going to do next, he’s not necessarily going to step on it, you know? You can’t… I mean, unless you’re going to bring the show into the modern era and do, like, another version of it, like with us, who knows how you could take it. Because it’s going to have to be some kind of… I don’t know. I don’t know. But I have confidence that he can pull it off because Mr. Robot is amazing. Some of his films are just amazing, so he’s so good.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah. He’s fantastic, man. He’s so good. And, you know, of course, it’s kind of bittersweet for us too, you know, hearing about it. Any of us are all kind of like, “Oh god, you’re going to do another one?” But at the same time, you know, it’s out there and it’s… people want more of it, and like you said; if anyone was going to do it… I’d have different feelings if it was perhaps a different creator I wasn’t such a fan of, and I think Sam is so talented that I think he’s going to do a wonderful thing with it. And I think, knowing what you said, that he is such a fan of Ron Moore’s work, that he would hopefully do it in such a respectful manner, make it his own, while, like you said, not sort of stepping all over our version of it. So, I’m curious to see what happens with that. We shall see. We shall see.

David Read:
Yeah. And I could understand from your perspective where part of you would be like, “Why you gotta do another one? It’s perfect as it is.”

Tahmoh Penikett:
Right. Why mess with it?

David Read:
Oh, absolutely, right. Lockwatcher [asks]: you were in the way-too-short series from the mind of Joss Whedon, “Dollhouse.” How did you… where did you think that it would go and how was it working on this series? Another great show. Absolutely masterful series for the two seasons.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Thank you. Yeah. Well, the great Joss Whedon. He’s a very, very talented man, you know. I think people forget – I know that there was, some controversy with Joss the last few years, but I read a very extensive article that was written on him, and I don’t think there was ever any charges pressed or anything, but, you know, his show that he was doing, I think for HBO, was canceled, and then, you know, I think he’s taken a step back from things. Those controversies aside, which I’m not privy to other than the article that I read, and I personally never had any bad experiences with Joss – quite the opposite. And also I think a lot of the stuff… and again, I’m no expert, and I know nothing about this… but I don’t think there was any controversy with Dollhouse, and he was much later in his career at that point. We all had quite a good experience on that, other than the fact that it was canceled so soon. The problem with it – and we’ve all told this story before – Joss is one of those creators who should have been allowed to do what he was going to do, but the powers that be at [the] network and [the] studio, I guess, were like, “Hey, let’s change this and change this.” He had this beautiful noir pilot that he shot that was excellent, and they just… they threw in some more, you know, sexy scenes and some more explosions, some more violence, and it just, it threw off his thing. He’s such a specific writer, he’s such a talent. He understands, you know, those 42 minutes so well that if you throw a kink in there, the slightest bump, it unhinges the whole thing. Everything falls apart. Part of, I think, his brilliance, people understand, is Joss’s pacing. You know, he’s one of those few writers who can, like, throw in some comedy, some comedic lines, some comedic timing in the middle of some heavy drama. He’s one of the few writers who actually does that well. It’s very specific to his style, and if you know Joss, he’s very witty, he’s very smart, and he’s a funny guy. We just didn’t have the opportunity to do as much as we should have. I know it’s being negative… I try not to do this. I don’t look back at it as a negative thing, I don’t have a lot of regret, but there is still such a desire that we had one more season. It just would have been more fitting because he had really, really capable writers on there who were supporting him on his writing team, and they just weren’t given the opportunity to really shine and to see through the very clever, very intelligent storylines and arcs that they had created and envisioned happening over five seasons. Even if they were given one more season, the third season, I really feel like they could have wrapped things up in a way that fans would have been like, “Wow.” And maybe even the network would have been like, “This – we gotta give this another season.” But, thankfully, they didn’t pull the plug in the middle of it. I’ll never forget the day seeing Joss on set. We were doing a scene where there was a bunch of the characters all in a scene, and I could tell something was up with him. I went up to him and I was like, “Hey, what’s happening? Are you OK?” And he’s like, “I’ll talk to you after.” I was like, “Oh boy.” I had no idea, you know. It was serious, whatever it was. And then he said afterwards, “Listen, we’ve been told that we’re canceled, but they’re going to let us finish our last six episodes here. We’re going to wrap it up. We’re going to get our full 13.” So, it was a somber day, but at that point, I remember making the decision that I was like, “I’m going to enjoy every single second I have on set.”

David Read:
That’s right.

Tahmoh Penikett:
And I did. No matter what. We had some long days, some grueling days into the mornings, and we’d have, you know, some of us start getting irritable or tired. And I was like, “Hey man, this is it. Enjoy it! Come on guys, remember we’re so blessed to even be here and this, the plug could’ve been pulled from us. We’ve got the opportunity to finish these. Let’s enjoy this time.” And we did, and they were awesome. It was a wonderful ride. I really wish that I could have just, you know, been on the journey with Paul [Ballard] a little bit more. I think there was so much opportunity for relationships and exploration and development of his character, had we been given more episodes.

David Read:
It’s one of those iconic series that you have to tell people if they haven’t seen, “Go and sit down and watch this.” There are a few pilots that, out of the gate, I fall in love with. One of them was the new “V,” and the other one was Dollhouse. I mean, and at least it has closure. It does have, in my opinion, a satisfying ending. And it’s just one of those totally unique premises. It’s unlike anything that’s out there.

Tahmoh Penikett:
It’s so different, right?

David Read:
Right? Exactly, right?

Tahmoh Penikett:
If you look at it, if you watch it now, you think about how many shows that have come subsequently and that have taken from that premise, as is the case with all art, right? Joss is one of those writers. You can see creators who have taken from that idea and been like, “Oh, wow, OK, I’m going to run with that.” It almost feels like it was just one of those shows. And I’ve had this a few times in my career where something is… it feels like it’s a little, you know, a couple years too early. If it had come a couple years later, it would have been a massive hit.

David Read:
Timing, everything.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah, but that’s just it. Maybe the timing was just perfect; because it was meant to come then, and, you know, inform future creators to come up with the shows they did. There has to be someone who lays those first tracks, breaks the first trail. So, I think, yeah.

David Read:
Marcia wanted to know: there’s one stunt credit listed on your IMDb page. Would you be interested in any more stunt work in the future, or no thank you?

Tahmoh Penikett:
I’m curious which one that is because I should have a ton of stunt credits. I think, honestly, the stunt department just didn’t want to… people didn’t want to pay me double because that means I would have been paid for a different thing. But, I did most of my fight scenes. I did most of my stunts throughout my career. That said, I love stunt performers. I’m married to a stunt performer. They are genius, and they’ve made me look so good. Like on Dollhouse, for instance, there were scenes there where they, you know… I thought I was doing most of the fight scene, and then I look at the stuff that they filmed without me, where they had our doubles do it. Man, like; backflips, landing on your back off a car, stuff that would, like, blow your knee, just crazy stuff. The stuff that only they can do. I’m too much of… there’s no way I would do that, or am I even capable of doing…? Spinning roundhouse kicks that I just can’t do. But they throw that stuff in there, and those guys just made me look good. They always did. Like Sam [Hargrave], they had… Sam was my double on Dollhouse for a bit, and Sam’s now a huge director. Have you seen the “Extraction” series? With [Chris] Hemsworth?

David Read:
I have not. I’ve heard it’s good.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Yeah, well, put it on the list. Sam is… he acts a little bit in it, but he’s the director. That’s his movie, the two of them, and he’s brilliant. He’s such a high-level stuntman. He’s an amazing martial artist, and he worked with… I remember back when we were working on Dollhouse, I remember him telling me, he’s like… he had just doubled Hugh Jackman in one of the original… as Wolverine, and he was telling me this amazing story about Hugh, and I loved it because we were having a really early morning, and Sam was like such a positive guy, he’s just real energy, and I remember all the guys they had on… just briefly, more shout-out to stunt community.

David Read:
Yeah.

Tahmoh Penikett:
87eleven is the very famous stunt group out of Los Angeles, and they did all the John Wick films.

David Read:
OK?

Tahmoh Penikett:
All those dudes, they’re badass.

David Read:
Badass.

Tahmoh Penikett:
They’re some of the best in the world, and Sam and all those guys were part of it, and all those guys were who we had in Dollhouse. That’s why some of those scenes were amazing. That’s why all the stunt performers were so good. But, anyway, we were at work, and Sam told the story, and he’s like… he was just talking about actors who have had humility, who were… and he talked about Hugh. They had, they had some ungodly morning – 4:00 AM call time, and he was really tired. They were taking a boat over to an island where they were going to shoot this massive choreographed scene. Oh, and on that, he said, “Hugh Jackman was amazing at these fight scenes,” and he goes, “You know why? Because he’s a theater actor, because he’s done song and dance his whole life.” People who have done dance training specifically, because there’s so many beats and timing to it, you have to remember it, they’re exceptional, usually, at remembering fight choreography, which I found really fascinating, but made complete sense. And he said Hugh was so easy to teach because he’d remember the fights better than us. He said, “we’d forget sometimes,” and he was like, “Oh no, this is where you throw the roundhouse and then I roll and then I slip…” But anyway, he’s telling me the story, and he said, “Hugh had this moment, he’s like, ‘God damn, I’m just so tired, my body hurts,’” and he had a moment, he was bitching.

David Read:
Yeah.

Tahmoh Penikett:
And then he said, “not even a minute later,”… and they were all feeling it. Everyone was tired. Everyone was beat up, especially the stunt performers, but they never complain. Those guys will be walking around with a broken arm, and they’re like, “Yeah, I’m good to go, everything’s fine.” Because that’s what they do. They’re tough as shit. And he goes, “You know what? Let me take that back, guys. I’m so grateful to be working with you guys. I’m so grateful for this moment. You’re doing amazing work, and please forget what I just said.” And I always remember that story, and I always think about that story, and Sam telling me that story whenever I’m having a 15-hour day or 16-hour day on set, and I’m tired, and I’m getting cranky, and I’m starting to feel sorry for myself, and I’m like, “Suck it up, buttercup. You’re doing exactly what you love. You have every reason to be grateful. Enjoy the suck. Embrace the suck, and love it.”

David Read:
Oh, I love that! I’m going to add that: “embrace the suck.” Mine is, “Make good ripples.”

Tahmoh Penikett:
There you go: “make good ripples.”

David Read:
Yeah, absolutely. Tahmoh, this has been awesome for me. I really appreciate having you on and getting a chance to share in some time with you. You know, I’m just grateful to have the time, so thank you so much, sir.

Tahmoh Penikett:
It’s been an absolute pleasure. I celebrate all of you guys, all the Stargate community. I just love my sci-fi fans, man. They’re fantastic. You guys keep a guy like me employed, you know, the down times when things are tough for actors, and it’s slow, we go to a convention and you guys make things make sense again. You rejuvenate us in ways you don’t even realize, so, you know, we appreciate it, and I appreciate it specifically, and all the support and the love that you guys have given me over a 20-year career, and, I thank you for that from the bottom of my heart. It’s an absolute pleasure. Keep spreading the love, keep doing what you’re doing. You’re obviously good at your job. Let’s do it again.

David Read:
I would love to have you back, man. You take care of yourself and thanks for being a part of the community – a continuing part of the community.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Loving prayers to your family, and to your mother specifically, and have an amazing show, man. I’m thinking about you.

David Read:
Thank you, sir. Be well.

Tahmoh Penikett:
Alright brother. Be well.

David Read:
Tahmoh Penikett, everyone. He was Third in Stargate SG-1, but he will always be in our hearts as Helo in Battlestar Galactica. My name is David Read. Thanks so much for tuning in to Dial the Gate. My tremendous thanks to my moderating team today. We had Tracy, Marcia, and Antony working on this particular episode – my tremendous thanks to them as well as Sommer and Jeremy. These people make the episodes continue to be possible behind the scenes, and there’s no way we could continue to do it without them. If you enjoy this episode and you want to see more content like this available on YouTube, please do me a favor and hit that like button. It does make a difference with the show, and it will continue to help us grow our audience. Please also consider sharing this episode with a Stargate friend. And if you want to get notified about future episodes, click the subscribe icon. Giving the bell icon a click will notify you the moment a new video drops, and you’ll get my notifications of any last-minute guest changes. Clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next few days and weeks on both the Dial the Gate and GateWorld.net YouTube channels. We have quite the slate coming up for you. If I can get all my ducks in a row here. I’ll show it to you. Here we go. Tomorrow, we have John Billingsley, Simon Coombs in Stargate SG-1. I know him better as [Dr] Phlox from [Star Trek] Enterprise, and probably many of you do as well. He’s going to be joining us tomorrow, May 12th at 3:00 PM Pacific Time, 6:00 PM Eastern – a little bit later than we normally do our shows, but he’s definitely a special one to do it for. So, Wormhole X-Tremists is going to be moved to next Sunday. We’re not going to have one tomorrow. We’d rather have John. Chelah Horsdal joining us May 17th, that’s a Friday, live at 11:00 AM Pacific Time. And we’ve got Ray Xifo as well… Chelah played multiple roles in Stargate, Ray Xifo who played Opher the Nox in Stargate SG-1, Season One, episode: “The Nox.” He’s going to be joining us live Saturday, May 18th, at 10:00 AM Pacific Time. And then Ben Browder, Cameron Mitchell from SG-1, live Sunday, May 19th, at 11:00 AM Pacific Time. Episode 250 will be David Hewlett and Kate Hewlett, Rodney McKay and Jeannie Miller, respectively, Saturday, May 25th, at 10:00 AM. And the list just keeps on going down, so be sure to stay tuned and see which of these special guests are going to be joining us beyond those dates that are already assigned. We’ve got a number of non-scheduled guests who have agreed to come on, so there’s a lot heading your way. Keep it on DialtheGate.com for that information. My name is David Read. I appreciate you all for tuning in. Thanks so much to Tahmoh Penikett for joining us for this episode. I’ll see you on the other side.