Joseph Mallozzi is back to discuss Season Three of Stargate Atlantis! The writer and executive producer takes us through the year which paired with Season Ten of SG-1 and the end of 40-episode annual assignments. He also takes your questions LIVE!

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Timecodes
00:00 – Opening Credits
01:14 – Welcome and Episode Outline
02:50 – Introducing Joe, Dial the Gate Discussion
05:18 – Writing SG-1 and Atlantis Concurrently, and Episodic Television
13:24 – “Sateda”
18:14 – Bringing Back the Replicators
23:30 – “Common Ground” and Todd
25:20 – “The Return” Parts 1 and 2, and Time Dilation
30:49 – “Sunday” and the Death of Carson Beckett
35:22 – “The Real World” and the Divergence of SG-1 and Atlantis
36:53 – “Irresponsible” and Richard Kind
39:02 – “Misbegotten” an Michael
42:07 – More “Irresponsible”
45:54 – “First Strike”
49:55 – Fan Questions, and Dark Matter
50:47 – Little Lulu
51:39 – SG-1 Roleplaying Game and Merchandise
52:33 – Science Fiction Tropes
56:30 – Fan Question Regarding “Irresponsible”
56:04 – Would Joe have gone fishing with Carson?
57:24 – Would SG1, SGA and SGU have Woven Together for One Episode?
58:31 – Todd Transformed Into a Human
59:32 – Time-Reverse Stories
1:00:30 – “200” and the Wedding Scene
1:01:22 – More Fan Questions
1:02:11 – More Atlantis Secrets to Reveal
1:04:30 – Wrap-Up With Joe
1:05:58 – Post interview housekeeping
1:07:45 – End Credits

***

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read
Hello, everyone. Good day and welcome to Dial the Gate. My name is David Read. Thanks so much for joining us for episode 109. Joseph Mallozzi is going to be joining us for this episode. I apologize for those who are watching the screen resolution is kind of wonky. I’m gonna have to figure that out after the show. But I reset something during the episode and it’s triggered everything weird here. Thanks again for joining us. So for this episode, if you like Stargate, and you want to see more content like this on YouTube, it would mean a great deal if you click that Like button. It really makes a difference with YouTube’s algorithm and will definitely help the show grow its audience. And if you wouldn’t mind, please also consider sharing this video with a Stargate friend. And if you want to get notified about future episodes, click the Subscribe icon. Click the Bell icon and that will give you a notification in the future of the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last minute guest changes. And clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next several weeks on both the Dial the Gate and GateWorld.net YouTube channels as this is a pre recorded episode. Or excuse me as this is a live episode rather, Joseph Mallozzi is going to be joining me live on Zoom, which means if you log into youtube.com/dialthegate, you will be able to submit your questions to him. And I will be sharing those with him in just a few moments. Our moderating team is standing by to take those questions. So let’s go ahead and bring in Mr. Joseph Mallozzi, the Writer, Executive Producer of Stargate Atlantis, and hello sir, how are you doing?

Joseph Mallozzi
I’m doing well. How are you doing?

David Read
I’m glad to have not been blown to Oz.

Joseph Mallozzi
I bet

David Read
To be perfectly honest with you. It’s kind of crazy down here. So. But I’m really excited. We’re we’re moving further into the stretch. And there’s fewer seasons ahead than there are behind. And I’m interested to know. Has this series presented you with some unexpected surprises in terms of the things that we’ve managed to bring up to the surface from memory? What has it been like going through this content over the past year with me? And has it been worth it so far?

Joseph Mallozzi
No. Absolutely has been worth it. And it has been a lot of fun. I mean, growing up my mother’s nickname for me was the absent minded professor because he just had a terrible memory. And you know when you first invited me to do this trip down memory lane, I was like, “Oh my God, what will I be able to remember?” It’s amazing how much, how many memories you’ve kind of jogged and in kind of watching some of the other interviews with Rob and Carl and the other writers, the other people who worked on the production, it’s amazing how much it brought back. Not just sort of the memories of what happened but the feelings of being in those moments at that period in time. It all came back and it’s been a lot of fun. The Japanese have a word for it’s called “metsukashi” [sounds like], which means it’s almost kind of a familiarity of, remembrance of things past if you will.

David Read
Fondly?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes, yes.

David Read
Okay,

Joseph Mallozzi
This reminds me oh, this takes me back.

David Read
Huh? I wonder how similar that is to just nostalgia because nostalgia is also a positive.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes, yes. But yeah, yeah, it’s funny, the Japanese word for almost anything. Very close to nostalgia. Yes. But not quite nostalgia.

David Read
What? This was obviously a very formative part of your time developing as a professional. What do you think? I’m trying to figure out how to phrase this. At this point, let me just bypass that altogether. We are in the last season that you did, with both SG-1 and Atlantis running concurrently. Now, you were more over on the SG-1 side for season 10? Correct?

Joseph Mallozzi
Correct.

David Read
Okay. And we already went and talked about that content. Now for Atlantis season three, you submitted a couple of episodes here. At this point in the franchise this is your third season of writing 40 episodes a season, which is still absolutely crazy. At this point do you recall thinking to yourself, “You know what? I think we can keep doing this. We figured out a stride. We’ve got the size of the writing staff that we need to pull this off. We have the resources of two shows that we’re pooling together to make this happen.” Or are you thinking, “You know what? I don’t know if I can do another one of these if SG-1 got picked up for a season 11 with 20 episodes on SyFy Channel.”

Joseph Mallozzi
It’s amazing how humans adapt. I remember the first season we did 40 episodes I thought, “There’s no way we can do this.” And we did it. And it’s funny, because at the end of that season, even though it was exhausting, I didn’t really feel any more exhausted than I did just doing a single episode of SG-1. There’s just more scripts to write. And then we had of course, Martin Gero on board and he was a script writing machine. And so really, by the time season three came around, I honestly thought we’d be coming back for an 11th season for SG-1. And we’ve discussed this in previous episodes, but I was fairly confident we’d be coming back and no, I had no hesitation or concerns about producing another 40 episodes of television a year. Well, I mean, I look back now and I think to myself, “Wow, how is that possible?” Especially after doing my last two shows were 13 episodes a season and they seemed overwhelming at the time. Just looking back, I can’t imagine sort of doing 40 episodes today.

David Read
I think that we’ve all been accustomed to, we’ve had enough time in this new era of the reduced number of episodes, for most of the shows that we watch, there’s still a couple of shows out there that still do do 20 or 22. But there really are a few and far between. I think that, by and large, I would say the quality of the shows that are selected in terms of the stories that are selected to air from a pool of shows, from pool of ideas that writers have gotten together, to say, “Okay, well, these are the really great ones. These are kind of the okay ones, and these are man, these other things don’t work out we’re going to have to go here.” When you have a fewer number of hours you pick from the top first, I would think. And that would give you a greater reason to have a greater chance at getting more memorable episodes on the air if you’re doing 10 as opposed to 20. They would have to be stronger overall.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yes, and no, I think you’re talking about really so there’s a stark difference between a network television and streaming or network television, very much of the 20+ episode per season variety, and they tend to be more episodic in nature, whereas the streamers tend to be more serialized. And you’re right, you do tend to tell a more compact story. It’s very similar to, because the UK model the six episode model, and as a viewer, I kind of prefer those models because like you said, there’s very little wheel spinning. You just tell the story. You have whatever 6, 8, 10, 13 episodes to tell your story and so you tell it in as concise and as an engaging a fashion as possible.

David Read
Do you look at it like, man, the network’s they really milked us for everything that we had back then so that they could have a block of syndication episodes. Or it was just the standard then and this was all we knew. And…

Joseph Mallozzi
No it was a standard then but I mean, like I said, we it was an episodic storytelling, right? So one of the things that we loved about working on Stargate was that each episode was almost like a mini movie, a beginning, middle and end. And even though there was certain serialized elements over the course of a season, usually those episodes stood on their own, it was like they call them standalone.

David Read
Right.

Joseph Mallozzi
And so, you know, they were always a lot of fun to write because you just put everything on that page. Just as I said, you just, it was just kind of almost like a perfect whole, that in that in that hour, or really more like 44 minutes and change. And so really, it wasn’t a matter of go back to saying spinning our wheels. But of course, there are certain certain episodes that maybe weren’t as strong as other episodes, but they were never, people use the term filler episodes. And really, that could apply maybe to a serialized storyline where you’re not advancing the story. But when you’re talking about an episodic structure, it isn’t really a filler episode that are all individual episodes. Some may be stronger than others, you may have a back in the day, when budgets were tight, we would do the occasional clip show or the bottle episode. But even again, I mean, I look at Stargate and frankly, Dark Matter, and two of the bottle episodes, Window of Opportunity and… What was the name of the Dark Matter episode?

David Read
With the time travel?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes, it’s, oh, my gosh, this is terrible. I can’t even remember. But in any case, they turned out to be the fan favorites, All the Time in the World? Maybe? That sounds familiar.

David Read
All the Time in the World? That’s it?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes.

David Read
Why do you think that is? Do you think that there is inspiration that comes out of constraint? Do you think necessity really is is the mother of virtue, necessity is the mother of invention?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it. But I mean, a lot of it has to do with the fact that because you’re thinking smaller, by smaller, I mean, you’re not thinking expansive, no big space battles, you’re not traveling from one place to the other. You have to focus on character. And I think as a result, that’s why those episodes are so memorable, because they tend to be more character oriented, really more relationship oriented than anything. And so I think that’s why they turned out to be fan favorites. And also, more often than not, they tend to be the humorous episodes as well. That’s a good amount of humor.

David Read
I want to look at some of the episodes that were done this season before we get to the two that you really focused on. Sateda, Robert Cooper’s masterpiece.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes. Robert Cooper’s I believe that’s his first directing gig.

David Read
Actually. His first one was the Vala clip show in season nine.

Joseph Mallozzi
Vala clip show?

David Read
Yes, where we visit her in the Ori galaxy. Because he corrected me as well because I thought, let me see what was that episode? Season nine, it’s Crusade.

Joseph Mallozzi
Okay. All right. Okay,

David Read
So this the first one he directed this is…

Joseph Mallozzi
Okay, that makes sense.

David Read
Yeah.

Joseph Mallozzi
So this was his first magnus opus, if you will.

David Read
Oh, my gosh, yes.

Joseph Mallozzi
So first of his many magnus opuses, opisi, opi?

David Read
This, I think, is a great example of an action episode that really is also a character piece when you boil everything else away. So I think it’s one of those that proves that if you throw enough at something, enough XYZ at something, you can really have your cake and eat it too. What was your impression of Sateda when you you sat down and really got to experience that after watching it develop?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, I mean, it was interesting. A couple of things. One was, I look back at it now and Ronon, Jason Momoa’s Ronon, was a character that we kind of love to explore through his backstory. So with Sateda, with Broken Ties, with Reunion, it’s something that we didn’t do as much with other characters interestingly enough. Whatever [I] remember about this episode, more than anything, two things. One is the fact that, I believe was it episode four when it aired?

David Read
Yes.

Joseph Mallozzi
Okay. It was episode four. It was shot as episode four. Now I remember because the network didn’t want to air it as episode four. For some reason they didn’t like it. They wanted to push it back to like midseason and Rob just flatly refused.

David Read
It’s his baby.

Joseph Mallozzi
There was like a huge…

David Read
Brouhaha?

Joseph Mallozzi
Clash. Yes. In the end, it ended up airing fourth. And the fans loved it. That I remember. And whenever we would watch the show, much to Rob’s chagrin, whenever that Wraith with the goggles would come out on screen. I would yell, “Wraith free swim!” And, you know, just…

David Read
He does look like he’s going for a dip.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, it’s like, “Okay, where’s the… okay, only Wraiths allowed in the pool.”

David Read
Oh, my gosh, that’s true. But why? I mean, I’m trying to honestly look at it from the network’s perspective. Episode four, we just really, we were gonna fight you guys on this. We don’t want it as episode four. We think that episode eight, man, it’s going to make all the difference in the world making it number eight or number nine even better? Why? What is there like, they look like that month action episodes do better in that month when episode nine would air? Where’s the, what’s going on?

Joseph Mallozzi
I don’t even recall the argument.

David Read
But okay,

Joseph Mallozzi
I do know that one of the things SyFy firmly believed in was that you have three episodes to capture an audience. And those first three episodes have to be gangbusters, or else, if the audience stays with you past that third episode then you’ve got them. This was episode four. But I guess the reasoning was this early in the season, if first time viewers will tune in, you want to give them the very best.

David Read
I see.

Joseph Mallozzi
And it was kind of strange because the TV is such a great [inaudible]

David Read
That’s right.

Joseph Mallozzi
What was episode five by the way?

David Read
Episode five was Progeny, another one of my favorites. So with the Replicators and Charles Emerson Winchester the Third.

Joseph Mallozzi
Oh, yes. Yes. Who drove up from Oregon.

David Read
He sure did.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah. Very nice guy.

David Read
Yeah. Oh, I thought he had lived in Seattle. He drove up from Oregon.

Joseph Mallozzi
Was it Oregon?

David Read
He’s definitely south.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah. Yeah. So that for us? Yes.

David Read
Exactly. I wanted to ask you about bringing the Replicators back in a new way and one from from a story perspective behind the scenes perspective and another from an in canon perspective, which one would you like to tackle first?

Joseph Mallozzi
Let’s do story perspective.

David Read
Story perspective first. You have really run the Replicators, not into the ground, into the ground is not right, because I think they really ran their course that version of the species through season eight of SG-1, they were ultimately responsible for helping to get rid of the Goa’uld, was a very satisfying arc. And I remember having the discussion with Martin Gero at the time of season three, when you guys were tinkering about bringing them back. His first reaction, and I quote was, “Replicators?” And then as you got further into it, in discussing what you could do with it, Martin’s reaction change to, “Replicators!” So what was the impetus for approaching that type of a race again, and taking it forward into Atlantis?

Joseph Mallozzi
You know, I always go back to the fourth season, after season season four and Paul sitting in my office and saying, “How the hell are we going to do another season if this show gets picked up for a fifth seaon?” Because all our episodes were very much kind of the standalone variety.

David Read
Uh, huh.

Joseph Mallozzi
And you know, as I said, we learned that there was that mythology to mine which made coming up with stories easier and so we will go back to the Replicators but a franchise that goes with 17 seasons, or even back then I think we were like 12 seasons in, it needs to, I mean, you want to maintain the familiar, you want to maintain sort of what the fans came for. But you also want to sort of grow and transform and so the Replicators as a threat were a very interesting threat, but we kind of dealt with them in the two-parter.

David Read
Reckoning.

Joseph Mallozzi
Reckoning. Yeah and bringing them back in the same manner would have felt like, kind of undoing that in a way and, and a bit of a step back. So rather than step back, we looked to step forward. And in order to do that, we decided to transform them as a threat. And I think they’re kind of interesting, making them even more scary in some ways, in that they’re able to communicate. And so that was very much an appeal, rather than sort of threatening you, in kind of the standard way that the Replicators threatened in previous episodes, they threatened you at a whole other level.

David Read
Okay. And I’ve been looking forward to asking this one, because it’s one of the questions that have been kind of dancing around fandom over the years, and some people are like, “Oh, well, it’s obviously this or no, it’s obviously that and because reasons.” Was it production’s intent to make the modern Replicators that we dealt with in SG-1, descendants in terms of their engineers, those who created them, descendants of the ones from Pegasus? Or are they just spiritual kind of successors? Because the way that I have always looked at it is that well, who’s Reese’s father? It’s Janus, gotta be Janus, or someone who created the Replicators in the Pegasus Galaxy?

Joseph Mallozzi
Wrapping up that question I was kind of smiling. Because whenever I’m asked these questions, I usually can’t answer them. I basically, I either don’t recall, or I always like to sort of suggest, Brad or Robert would be people to talk to you about about this, because especially Rob the Replicators were very much his babies.

David Read
Okay, so definitively, you don’t have an answer.

Joseph Mallozzi
Absolutely do NOT an answer. Definitively do NOT have an answer.

David Read
Or you’re just toying with me and say, “You know what, I do have the answer, but it’s not my answer to tell.”

Joseph Mallozzi
Isn’t it more fun. Yeah. Basically, if I wanted to save face, I wouldn’t say something like, “Well, I can answer that question. But isn’t it more fun not to know?” It would be great just to know but I’d be like, “I don’t really have the answer.”

David Read
So you know, that’s perfectly fair as well. There’s a lot of those circumstances where it’s like, especially like with intent of like a story decision. Like I finished The Leftovers recently. And you’re left with at the end. Okay, what was the fate of all of those people that disappeared? I’m not gonna tell you. So I get it. But I will ask that of Rob the next time that we have him on. Common Ground is an episode where we really start seeing a different layer [inaudible] Right. Christopher Heyerdahl.

Joseph Mallozzi
Amazing,

David Read
Spectacular casting decision. Did he read for Todd or did you guys say, “You know what, let’s have this guy back. He’s always excellent.”

Joseph Mallozzi
I don’t recall. But I mean, he was great, as, what is his Athosian name?

David Read
Oh, Haling.

Joseph Mallozzi
Oh, yeah. He was great as Haling. But, I mean, Todd, he really delivered as Todd.

David Read
Whose idea was it, do you recall, that the Wraith could return life as well as take it away? That was an eye opener.

Joseph Mallozzi
I think, this was like a Ken Cuperus?

David Read
Yes. Ken Cuperus, writer.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah. So I mean, he was new. So we remember, we broke the story in the room. So I mean, I think it had to be either Brad or Robert to come up with that particular idea in the room. It’s weird. Just love the idea of them being that twist of them being able to take life, but also return it.

David Read
And it was a great kind of swing at the tee up that was introduced in the previous midseason two-parter with the Wraith worshipers. They’re all young and vibrant. And it’s like, “Okay, what’s going on there? What can they possibly be getting from this relationship?” Well, now we know. They’re just letting them stay young. I remember watching The Return, part one, and we hunted and gathered Ancients from the void between two galaxies and return them to Atlantis. It really felt like it could play as a series finale.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah.

David Read
And then having a Rick comeback for the two-parter with Robert Picardo

Joseph Mallozzi
Bob Picardo Oh, yeah.

David Read
Fantastic pairing there. What was your feeling of those of those episodes and how they played?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, I mean, we always delivered big, mid-season two-partners and then ended each season in a big way. So yeah, I mean, those midseason two-parters could have played as end of season episodes. It’s just kind of interesting when I think back to how much, how many different aspects of the mythology we were able to kind of mine, and how time distortion and time travel allowed us to really explore certain of those facets in kind of unexpected ways like we did in this particular episode.

David Read
I think that, I wish that time dilation had been played with a little bit more in Stargate. I think the only other one that I can think of besides this episode, was A Matter of, I think it was A Matter of Time in season two with the black hole.

Joseph Mallozzi
Wasn’t there another episode, I thought it was in Atlantis.

David Read
Time dilation?

Joseph Mallozzi
Involving time dilation, where Sheppard went, stepped through…

David Read
He stepped into the, oh, yes, you’re absolutely right. That’s right. That was season two. And the episode is Epiphany.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes. Okay.

David Read
You’re absolutely correct, good for you.

Joseph Mallozzi
And then in terms of time dilation, not like an entire episode, but when Carter tricks Five, was it?

David Read
Fifth?

Joseph Mallozzi
Fifth, fifth.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, that’s man, [inaudible]

Joseph Mallozzi
Time dilation. You know why I remember one of those things because I’m the time travel, time dilation king so basically, I love you know, all those stories, all those twists, all those, so very much.

David Read
I think it’s one of the things that’s really scary about the implications of science fiction is that you can be trapped in your own personal hell for God knows how long and everyone else is experiencing things in the blink of an eye. There’s an episode of Black Mirror where it’s used as a torture device to imprison someone for years and years and years. And just a few moments and what you won’t say, to get out of this, out of that, things nightmares are made of.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, there’s a great Anime called Voices, Voices of a Distant Star, I believe, were it’s this couple that are separated, and this woman goes out to basically fight aliens of the furthest reaches of space, and she sends messages to her lover. And while she’s off fighting battles, he’s living a life, his entire life on Earth. And the messages get, it takes longer and longer for messages to arrive, and it’s really kind of a haunting.

David Read
And she’s not aging by comparison.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes, exactly. So it’s like very short anime. I think it’s like a half hour but at least check it out.

David Read
Voices from a Distant Star?

Joseph Mallozzi
I think Voices of a Distant Star or Voices from, could be.

David Read
Voices of a Distant Star, romance drama, 2002, Japanese science fiction, original video animation short film. Oh, I’m down.

Joseph Mallozzi
How long is it?

David Read
Let me see here. Hoshi no koe [original title], Distant Star. And of course, it’s not telling me how long it is.

Joseph Mallozzi
All right.

David Read
But it sounds really, that sounds great. Yeah, absolutely.

Joseph Mallozzi
I feel I’ve made a contribution this episode, a great recommendation.

David Read
25 minutes.

Joseph Mallozzi
Okay.

David Read
25 minutes long.

Joseph Mallozzi
I’m drinking a bit during this episode because I was out last night with the lovely and talented Roger Cross, SG-1, Dark Matter. He was actually wrapped up on his recent season on Coroner and so he was like, “Hey, let’s get together.” And I got together with him and Ivon Bartok, who was Co-Exec on Dark Matter, went out for Jamaican food and drinks. And so I’ve been like wildly thirsty, all day. So, apologies.

David Read
No, you’re all good. And while we are doing some shout outs, I believe it is Ben Browder’s birthday today.

Joseph Mallozzi
It is Ben Browder and Peter Kelamis’ birthday today. Yes. Happy Ben Browder and Peter Kelamis day…

David Read
Happy Birthday gentlemen.

Joseph Mallozzi
Happy Birthday to you all.

David Read
Absolutely, two great folks.

Joseph Mallozzi
They are absolutely great.

David Read
The big thing, really, that I think sticks in everyone’s mind for season three of Atlantis. The death of Beckett.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes.

David Read
Sunday is particularly close to my heart. Because Martin Gero and I were pretty chatty at this point during the show’s production, and he had talked to me about this day off idea that he had had since basically season one, but there was no jeopardy in it. So it’s like, well, I mean, what can we do? He had loved Elephant, the movie, and I had recently seen it. I won’t spoil it for anyone. I suggest that you just go and watch it cold. But it’s…

Joseph Mallozzi
I remember seeing it Yes. Yes.

David Read
Very intense. It’s not for kids.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes.

David Read
But it deals with this, what unfolds, and if you go into it cold you only find this out as you watch it. Is you’re watching the same sequence of time told from different perspectives. And then near the end, it’s like, “Oh, crap, this is where we are, yes, this is what’s happening.” And it’s a brilliant film. And his kind of spiritual homage to it was Sunday, was in many ways, equally pulling on the heartstrings with the loss of someone that we have all grown to care about, if we’ve watched the show from the beginning at this point. Tell us about being in that room and giving birth to this idea of having a relatively benign situation, be the trigger to wake us up to the fact that we can lose anyone at any time. And the frontier of this.

Joseph Mallozzi
I remember Martin struggling with the story in exactly that. They really thought, “Yeah, that’s great. It’d be fun to explore, but there is no jeopardy.” And he knew he had to kill someone off at the end. And I don’t sure if I miss remember, but he didn’t have the person who would die as he’s outlined it, as we were outlining it, and it couldn’t just be a guest actor. It had to be someone that the audience connected with, and ultimately ended up being Paul. And I thought it was a beautiful episode. I thought that final scene with McKay looking at the water and Beckett slow fading was incredibly touching. I just kind of wish it hadn’t been exploding tumors.

David Read
Jason has the line. “Exploding tumors. You gotta be kidding me.”

Joseph Mallozzi
Right. Yeah.

David Read
Do you recall whose idea it was for Beckett?

Joseph Mallozzi
I believe there was some discussion, I think, ah, hmm.

David Read
Or was it a group call?

Joseph Mallozzi
It was not a group call.

David Read
It was not okay.

Joseph Mallozzi
No.

David Read
Well, we’re not, we don’t have to hang anyone out to dry.

Joseph Mallozzi
But I remember after the season wrapped and we were at a wrap party, and I told Paul, I’m like, “Hey,” and he was kind of bummed.

David Read
Of course, he lost a job.

Joseph Mallozzi
“This is how we’re going to bring you back. If who knows what the future holds.” And I pitched him at that wrap party. So in my mind, Beckett was gone, but not for long. That’s the beauty part of science fiction. And yeah, I mean it’s kind of a double-edged sword. It’s great because no one ever dies in sci fi, but it’s also a pain in the ass and kind of tends to blunt the beauty of those moments in those episodes because ultimately nobody ever dies in sci fi, unless you decide, you know…

David Read
I’m looking forward to discussing this with you in next season because I have some strong opinions.

Joseph Mallozzi
All right.

David Read
I’d like to share those opinions with you next year.

Joseph Mallozzi
Excellent.

David Read
And kind of put myself out to fall on the sword because there’s gonna be plenty of people who will disagree with me. But yeah, I loved this season, because it was really, SG-1 is in season 10, and is definitely moving and the shows are diverging more and more into their own identities. I think Atlantis’s humor was clicking a lot better this season. And I think just the performances were strong, I can’t pass Torri, in the Real World. I think that that performance is solid, and go back and watch that. It just gives me the heebie jeebies with her kind of situation. We can all relate to the fear of losing our minds. And all of us have known someone who has had some kind of a circumstance where they weren’t the same person that they were at one point previously in their past, when they were younger for instance, Alzheimer’s and dementia. That’s not exactly what this is. But that was a scary episode. And it was cool.

Joseph Mallozzi
It was a great episode was that a Carl Binder joint?

David Read
The Real World was, Carl Binder.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah, he could always tell those great, kind of really heartfelt character centered stories. And also, I mean, Torri is fantastic. And it was fabulous in this episode.

David Read
I remember going to set for season three and Irresistible was in production. And this had been one that Darren and I had not heard of. We usually get a pretty reasonable lead on like episode titles and very, very tentative summaries at this point in production when it was being shot earlier on in the year. And I thought, “This is brand new. Who is it? Oh, that’s Richard Kind on set. Okay.” And we asked Brad like, “Who is Lucius?” and he said, “He’s kind of the Harcourt Fenton Mudd of Atlantis. Okay, so we’ve got a trickster. And what an interesting character.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, Richard Kind was amazing. I like him a lot. He’s super talented, very funny. There’s certain instances where, because he just kind of improvised. I remember that was back in the days when I had my chocolate parties. Where I would bring in chocolates from all over the world and invite the cast and friends. And he was in town, I think for this one, or was it the sequel? And so I invited him and he was just so blown away. And after his appearance he would send me emails he’d be like, “You gotta check out this ice cream place in Cincinnati.” No, great guy.

David Read
What do you think about, would you have done another another episode with him? You think if there was availability, or do you think?

Joseph Mallozzi
I think we did, didn’t we?

David Read
After and I’m gonna get to Irresponsible in just a little bit here. But would you have done more with him in season four or season five if the proper story had come up? Or was there one and he just wasn’t available? Because I was always interested in this character?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, no, there was some some discussion. In fact, actually, I remember sort of floating the idea of of Lucius and bringing back Princess Harmony. And trying to come up with a story that would pair them. We just kind of never came up with the story.

David Read
Oh, that’s cool. So your episodes for this season are Misbegotten and Irresponsible. And I remember you going back and forth on the title for Misbegotten was originally gonna be the Begotten and then you went to Misbegotten. The Atlantis team must decide the fate of a colony of Wraith they have turned into humans. And Dr. Weir must defend her leadership when she’s evaluated by the IOA. So you’ve got two things happening, you got the the Pegasus Galaxy drama and then the Milky Way galaxy drama.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, always love those types of stories where you’ve got like two things going on that kind of dovetail at the end. I also like those kind of moral/ethical dilemmas that very much it goes back to sort of our first episode Scorched Earth where we were dealing with whose planet is it anyways. In this case and come to think of it, I mean, the seeds of some of the themes I touched on here, we touched on in Dark Matter as well, this idea of sort of identity and are you a product of your environment or are people inherently evil. So, yeah, I mean, it was a fun episode with some at times very bad wigs.

David Read
I mean, you went with what you had.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah, it’s just there were so many of them at the end of the day.

David Read
That’s a true point. Oh, gosh. Michael, played by Connor Trinneer, really ended up being one of the best foils for Teyla, for Sheppard. Connor, really came into his own throughout, I guess not just specifically season three, but throughout throughout the entire run. Did he, with you guys, take the character in places that you didn’t entirely expect?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, I mean, we’ve discussed this in previous episodes, when you write a role for a character, an actor, and whether they come back or the character comes back, really, a lot of it has to do with their performance, do they pop and, Connor as Michael really popped. It goes back to that first episode, again, written by the amazing Carl Binder, that really sets a really interesting again a dilemma. And this kind of just takes it a step further. But in so doing, you’re kind of cementing him as not your typical villain. He’s a bad guy. Very good reasons for doing what he does.

David Read
Tell us about Irresponsible. We have one last living time I should say, Acastus Kolya, who was probably my favorite villain in terms of his relationship with Sheppard. Which was played actually really beautifully in season five in an episode that will eventually get to. Why did he die? Why was that a decision that was made?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, again, I sort of I think back. And I think, we wanted some sort of like, a big moment for the end of the episode. In retrospect it wasn’t a great way for him to go. And just for many reasons, that episode just, it didn’t work on sort of many levels from not being able to get the right location. We were going to actually shoot in, it was a town it was actually a Western town. I forget what it was called something like, anyways. And so we’re like, “We’ve got the perfect place for it, it’s going to be like, we’re gonna be doing a Western.” And then prep week came up and they checked it out. And the place was falling apart. They’re like, “It’s danger. We can’t go there. So we have to look for another place.” And we ended up, not sure what was called Fantasy Gardens or something, where it’s like a pastiche of all these different architectures. That didn’t work well. And then the final duel where Sheppard is facing off against Kolya and the rest of the team are like right behind. I remember watching it, like after the fact, seeing the dailies, and I’m like, “Why are they standing directly behind him, there’s going to be shooting” And I forget, I think was Martin’s word at the time was like, “Well, they really wanted to back Sheppard, literally back him, a figurative back him.” And it just kind of didn’t make sense. And then for Kolya to go out that way now, in retrospect, it was not worthy of the character. But again in my mind I was like, “Well, this is science fiction. So, there’s a possibility to bring him back.” And we did bring him back effectively in season five, but there could have been a way to bring him back for real in a season six.

David Read
But the location by itself is great. You guys used it in Revisions. You may have used it one other time, if I’m not mistaken. The western town that you’re talking about, would that have been the town that was seen in like, for instance, like Beast of Burden? Be going back there you think?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah.

David Read
Okay. Yeah. And I loved the return of the Ancient personal shield device. Of course, Lucius would have found one and then used it to make himself out to be a hero. Yeah, Richard Kind was, it was nice to have him in the show. He’s, I think the second actor behind French Stewart, or he was the first actor from the original feature film.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

David Read
So kind of a nod there. No, I loved the moral conundrum that was introduced with the finale, First Strike. You have Weir talking with Teyla and saying, “You know what, I’m sick and tired of these people coming in.” Seems like every year at this time her warranty tends to be up where the powers that be back on Earth, kind of set her aside for a military objective. And in this case, it’s one that’s, I understand on one side, but on the other side morally dubious if you consider the Replicators to be sentient, to nuke, a huge chunk of their planet, where admittedly warships are being developed, and leave ourselves open ultimately to an attack that results in us having to depart Lantia for the wider Pegasus Galaxy. Tell us a little about First Strike and wrapping up that season.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, I mean, we always went out big and this was pretty, pretty big. Who was the writer?

David Read
First Strike was written by, ya think so. Yeah, let me double check. Yeah, it was Gero. Yep.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah. And I mean, we just wanted something big and again everything, as you said, all of those storylines we’ve been building on throughout the season, just come together in a kind of an explosive way in this finale. I remember Rob Cooper arguing with me against abandoning Atlantis. When did we end up abandoning Atlantis? In this episode, or the the premiere?

David Read
Abandoning Atlantis altogether?

Joseph Mallozzi
So not abandoning Atlantis, abondoning the planet.

David Read
The planet, yeah, this episode we leave.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah. Yeah. And Rob really argued against it. And we’re like, “Why are you so…”

David Read
Adamant?

Joseph Mallozzi
He’s like, “What about the whales?” Oh the whales. We saved the whales. And now I was like, “Well, I don’t know.” And I pitched an idea that they didn’t like where basically, they fly off. And then it turns out the whales end up sprouting wings, and flying off, like sort of super evolving and flying off into space. I think they were named whangels. But nobody liked that idea. So the whales perished.

David Read
Jeez. No, it just shows how the Replicators have teeth, and they’re going to be an enemy that we’re going to have to deal with. And we don’t even make it to the end of next season to deal with them. We have to take care of them rather quickly because they are spreading like mad. We thought the Wraith were a problem. These folks are about to take us all down. It’s a great couple hours of television, First Strike, and then Adrift in season four. And I’m looking forward to talking with you about the departure of Torri and bringing in Amanda Tapping. Just a great season. I think, as for me, as Atlantis progressed, overall the number of stories that I fell in love with, as opposed to the number of stories that I was just kind of on the fence about, were really increasing as as the show went along and found kind of its unique energy.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah. So this is as we grow more confident in the characters and the storylines that I think it’s a way with most shows. So.

David Read
That’s absolutely fair. So I have some fan questions for you.

Joseph Mallozzi
Excellent.

David Read
Alec Brownie has a Dark Matter question, “It was alluded that alternate universe Marcus was losing his grip. Why? Does this have to do with losing his Sarah and or knowing that there’s an Android Sarah around?” Sorry Stargate fans.

Joseph Mallozzi
Possibly, I mean, we ever really explored or I forget who said he was kind of losing his grip, I think it was probably alternate Portia and she was basically could have been just shit-talking because that crew just, the knives were out, and they were very quick to put it in each other’s backs. So I don’t believe everything she says.

David Read
That’s fair. Ugly Pig, hello Ugly Pig, “How familiar, Joe, were you with the franchise before you were hired to write for the little Lulu show?”

Joseph Mallozzi
Um, very familiar in that like most shows, I mean, you do your research, you read the bible. And I don’t know, we developed that one internally, like I did a lot of the other shows, but I think we put together a bible for it. So. I mean, we launched the show, and I think my former writing partner, Paul, story-edited one of the later seasons. So I did write a couple of episodes for them. So I was pretty familiar having read the comic strips and having participated in the development of the show internally.

David Read
JSivitri, “How familiar with are you and have you had a chance to play the new Stargate roleplaying game? And what are your thoughts on it?”

Joseph Mallozzi
I have no thoughts. It looks interesting. But I have not played the game. I don’t play very many games to be honest with you.

David Read
Understood. What do you think about the show continuing to exist in terms of its merchandise? Do you think that that’s important to keep the keep the vision alive?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, I think it’s important. Just from merchandising, in very much kind of the online fandom, continue to let Amazon now know that you want a new series, and they’re gonna give us a new series. It’s just a matter of what shape that new series will take.

David Read
George Fotis Dramesiotis. Sorry George, I butchered that. “Can you please ask Joe, oh, so Joe, what sci fi tropes do you love repeatedly watching? And which ones just drive you nuts?”

Joseph Mallozzi
Oh, well, I mean, the obvious is the time loop. Yeah. I mean, for Dark Matter, the time loop episode, I ended up doing a deep dive and watching like two dozen time loop episodes across various shows. And they were all, I mean, some are better than others, but they were all a lot of fun. So the time loop is my favorite. Terms of what I don’t like, it’s kind of tough, because really it comes it comes down to the execution, in many cases. I mean, the cliches are just kind of annoying, if they don’t bring something new. You can take an old chestnut and kind of turn it on its head and deliver a show. The great thing about sort of kind of these standard tropes is that the audience already knows them. So you can surprise them by setting them up in a way that you think that the audience believes it’s going to go and then and then just kind of rug pull the audience, which is what I kind of did with the time loop episode on Dark Matter. But I’m trying to think in terms of like tropes, nothing off the top of my head. I guess I’m not a huge fan of, what do you call the trope, the chosen one?

David Read
Okay

Joseph Mallozzi
Chosen one trope.

David Read
Like prophecy?

Joseph Mallozzi
The problem is basically, you it is fated, you will be the one to… lead our people, etc, etc.

David Read
Yeah, when you really think about it that’s used a lot. And a lot of them are…

Joseph Mallozzi
Mostly in fantasy.

David Read
That’s true too. Can I share mine with you? Now?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes.

David Read
Okay. Where we get a ton of character development and explore the characters in a whole new way, and time resets, or it wasn’t them, or some such that everything resets back to the way it was before.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, yeah.

David Read
That’s one, I mean, always [inaudible] for me.

Joseph Mallozzi
I guess, yes and no, it really depends. I mean, if like in the SG-1 finale.

David Read
Yeah, Teal’c remembers.

Joseph Mallozzi
That’s an example of kind of giving it a bit of a twist. You have a character who remembers and so it’s a bittersweet. And even though it’s been undone, it’s still have ramifications, certain consequences, which I love. But yeah, very much. I’m not a big fan of we just go back to step one, it’s just a waste of time.

David Read
Voyager did this, another one of my favorite, with The Year of Hell, which is, I think, two of the best hours that show put, on completely reset. And there’s another one where it’s not even them, they’re mercury looking gunk that ended up in space. It’s like, “Oh, it wasn’t them the entire time either.” But it also with Continuum, you do the same thing where Mitchell potentially remembers because he has a photo of him and his granddad on his locker. So that was always like, ah!, if SG-1 came back in some way, I would have liked a little tale to explain what he knew and what he didn’t there. So ThatDudeRightThere, “Joe up regarding Irresponsible. Did you guys set out to write an episode, where Kolya was his character was resolved and the rest of the episode was formed around it, or did his death occur when setting…”

Joseph Mallozzi
His death pretty much occurred as almost, obviously not an afterthought, but once once the main story had been thought through we needed a satisfying conclusion.

David Read
That makes sense. Eva L. says, “Would you have gone fishing with Carson in Sunday?”

Joseph Mallozzi
I would have definitely gone fishing with Carson, Carson or Paul McGillion. Not that I’m much of a fisherman I don’t [inaudible] fisherman, fishing, but I very much enjoyed their company.

David Read
Yeah agreed. Elizabeth Lee, “What are the odds of an SG-1, SGA, SGU story being continued and woven together at some way in the future, were you guys given the chance to do that?” I suppose that’s more of a Brad question.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, it is more of a Brad question. And, I think, one of the elements of the SG-1 Revolution, oh no it wasn’t SG-1 Revolution. I think there was even some thought to doing like a wrap up. Was it a Universe? I guess it would have had to be in a Universe movie, where elements of SG-1 and Atlantis and gating on to Destiny to help in a rescue mission.

David Read
Brad did allude to this at one point that he said if Universe could not be resolved in like its five season arc that Stargate Command and Atlantis would pool their resources to save Destiny, which I think would have been terrific.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah.

David Read
William Arends, “Was it ever proposed that Todd be transformed into a human for a period of time?”

Joseph Mallozzi
Ah, no. I felt we kind of did that with Michael and he was such a great unique character. I felt it almost feels like having Todd do that would he would just kind of be walking well trodden ground, if you will. And just Todd as Todd is just so glorious, that ultimately, no, we never took that seriously.

David Read
That’s fair.

Joseph Mallozzi
That option seriously.

David Read
Peace Rider. This is a little bit before your time but I remember you discussing it in Q&A’s a lot. “Re’tu Charlie, was there ever a nugget of an idea of returning to Re’tu Charlie?

Joseph Mallozzi
Ah, no, no.

David Read
Okay. Philippe Canat, “Time dilation and time travel are cool, but time reverse like Tenet is insane. Would you consider writing stories based on that concept?”

Joseph Mallozzi
I haven’t seen Tenet.

David Read
Really?

Joseph Mallozzi
Yes.

David Read
Shame, Joseph.

David Read
You need to see it. Yeah. At least from from an educational perspective of science fiction. I thought it was an excellent exercise of, anytime that I’ve watched a Christopher Nolan movie, with the exception of a couple, it’s mental gymnastics for one thing. It’s a really good exercise. You just haven’t managed to see it yet or just…

Joseph Mallozzi
Really?

Joseph Mallozzi
So it all makes sense in the end for you?

David Read
Uh huh.

Joseph Mallozzi
Interesting.

David Read
Yeah. Because it, have you heard that it doesn’t?

Joseph Mallozzi
Maybe.

David Read
All right, that’s fair. Sabina Pilchová, “What about episode 200? And in particular, that wedding scene, any jokes or interesting behind the scenes info? Did you have to convince Richard and Amanda to do it?”

Joseph Mallozzi
No, no, I think they both very much looked forward to doing it. And I know Michael very much looked forward to his little cameo in that scene as well, as the tip of the hat to both the shippers and the slashers.

David Read
Absolutely. “You know if she doesn’t show up they may think that you and I are…”

Joseph Mallozzi
Just the fact that he calls her Carter on his wedding day. Awesome.

David Read
No, she calls him, I think, Colonel or Sir. And he’s like, “Hey, we’re married. We’re getting married.” She’s like, “Oh, sorry, Jack.” That was great. Surtvalheim00, “If the SG program is revealed to the world, would you hire David to play the role of a journalist?”

Joseph Mallozzi
Absolutely, absolutely. Why not?

David Read
Duja89, “Any regrets not utilizing McKay and Mrs. Miller and Tao of Rodney to make Zelenka a more prominent character?” He was always a foil for Rodney.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, he was, I mean I love David Nykl, love Zelenka. I think we just had so much going on with the other characters that at times it was just kind of hard to service everyone. So, I mean, it’s not a regret. I mean, sure would have been interesting.

David Read
That’s fair. And last one for you. Teresa MC. “Do you think Atlantis has more secrets to reveal?”

Joseph Mallozzi
Absolutely. Absolutely. It does. We had actually planned a very loose terms a 6th season, we kind of were looking ahead to bringing Atlantis back to the Pegasus Galaxy and telling more stories and then sadly, we were cancelled. We never got the opportunity.

David Read
I would love to have like a San Diego Comic Con panel or some kind of of reunion of the writers of you guys to sit down and break a what if season six of Atlantis. Had it taken a different direction.

Joseph Mallozzi
Yeah, that would be like a marathon in order to break the entire season you would be there a good two weeks.

David Read
Okay, well, maybe…

Joseph Mallozzi
Sorry, not break. I mean, come up with the stories, I think in terms of breaking an entire that will take like, I think three months.

David Read
Wow. Okay.

Joseph Mallozzi
No. That’s very short for, we were always very quick at breaking. A lot of 10 – 13 episode shows go at least four months, breaking their seasons.

David Read
Or maybe breaking a two-parter.

Joseph Mallozzi
Right.

David Read
So I would love to see just everyone get a chance to get back together, preferably in the same room, and just sit down and spin one more story together.

Joseph Mallozzi
It would be interesting that, bring back those dynamics, because…

David Read
Uh huh.

Joseph Mallozzi
I always mentioned the fact that writers are good at three things: writing, spinning, and pitching. And it’s rare that you have a writer who’s very good at all three. So, it would be interesting because too, and writers change over time as well.

David Read
That’s true. You guys evolved.

Joseph Mallozzi
To see sort of how those dynamics changed after, is it 10 years?

David Read
It’s been a while. Yeah, absolutely. It has. Well Joe I really, really appreciate you once again taking the time to sit down and talk with us. It’s always exciting to have you on and share some more nuggets as we progress. I’ve really found this this manner of looking at the series to be extremely rewarding because it’s been so methodical. And being able to look back over these previous episodes we’ve done and see how all the bricks and mortar have built to the position where we are. Not just for each individual show, but all of them together, to kind of form the tapestry of the universe as you guys have created it. And thank you once again for being part of that.

Joseph Mallozzi
Oh, my pleasure. It’s a lot of fun. I mean, like I said, I kind of phased out any further podcasts or interviews for the time being, but I’ll make an exception for this one because it’s unique and a lot of fun. So thanks for having me.

David Read
Thank you very much, sir. Well, you have a wonderful holiday season and a good new year.

Joseph Mallozzi
Thank you you too. And everybody there, out there, happy holidays.

David Read
Happy holidays to you and I’ll be reaching out to you really soon to get a January date nailed down.

Joseph Mallozzi
Great.

David Read
So none of this last minute crap, I swear.

Joseph Mallozzi
Alright. Fine.

David Read
So best to you guys, best to wife and pupper.

Joseph Mallozzi
I will. Bye.

David Read
Be well. Bye bye. Joseph Mallozzi, Writer and Executive Producer of Stargate Atlantis. Thank you all so much for tuning in. I apologize for the weird screen formatting I have this to fix before our next program starts up here with Mack Martin, the lead Game Designer for the Stargate SG-1 RPG. My name is David Read and you are watching Dial the Gate and we are brought to you every week for free and we do appreciate you watching. But if you want to support the show further buy yourself some of our themed swag. It is the holiday season after all and we are into giving gifts. We are now offering T-hirts, tank tops, sweatshirts and hoodies of all ages and varieties, as well as a variety of cups and other accessories in a variety of sizes and colors at dialthegate.com. From the merchandise tab, you can click on a specific design to see what items are being offered. Checkout is fast and easy. And you can use your credit card or PayPal just visit dialthegate.com or go straight to dialthegate.com/merch. And thanks so much for your support. And if you like what you’ve seen in this episode, give us a click with that Like button. It really makes a difference with YouTube’s algorithm and continues to help grow the audience. We will be back in just about 45 minutes with Mack Martin, the lead Game Developer on the Stargate SG-1 RPG, he wrote the book, and we’re going to be bringing him in in just a few minutes. So thank you so much for tuning in. I appreciate my moderating team. Sommer, Tracy, Keith, Jeremy, Rhys, Antony, my Producer Linda “GateGabber” Furey, big thanks to Frederick Marcoux, our web developer and Jeremy Heiner, my webmaster. I’m David Read for Dial the Gate. See you on the other side.