Kathleen Munroe’s performance as Dr. Amanda Perry in Stargate Universe really struck a chord with fans. Not only was her character a quadriplegic who had a chance to be free of her body, but the ending to the character — if you can call it that — was a sucker-punch. We are delighted to welcome Kathleen to the show to share stories from her career and her time on Stargate!

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Timecodes
0:00 – Splash Screen
00:23 – Opening Credits
00:48 – Welcome and Episode Outline
02:02 – Welcoming Kathleen, her prior Stargate knowledge, and scifi
05:07 – Amanda Perry’s Disability
07:36 – Star Trek: The Next Generation and Jonathan Frakes
09:00 – Kathleen’s start in acting
13:58 – A Challenging Role
17:32 – How do actors manage dramatic performances night after night?
21:09 – Getting the role of Amanda Perry on Stargate Universe
25:15 – Preparing for the Role and Playing the Character
31:22 – Working with Robert Carlyle and the Rush/Perry relationship
37:48 – The Communication Stones and Returning in Season Two
44:00 – Destiny’s Purpose
46:50 – Fan Questions: Fond memories of SGU
48:21 – How Kathleen felt about the show being cancelled
49:31 – Favorite SGU episode
52:04 – Finding work in Canada and the US
54:22 – Toronto Star Article and Diversity in the Film Industry
59:26 – Kathleen’s Role in Haven
1:00:45 – Robert Carlyle’s Accent
1:02:18 – Kathleen’s music
1:06:16 – Wrapping up with Kathleen
1:07:50 – Post-interview housekeeping
1:09:15 – End credits

***

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TRANSCRIPT
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David Read
Hello everybody, my name is David Read. Welcome to Dial the Gate episode 189 of the Stargate Oral History Project. Thank you so much for joining me. For the next hour we have Kathleen Munroe on the show and she’s going to take us through her career and talk about her time on Stargate Universe and answer your fan questions. But before we get into the thick of it, if you enjoy Stargate, and you want to see more content like this on YouTube, please click that like button. It will help the show continue to grow its audience. Please also consider sharing this video with a Stargate friend and if you want to get notified about future episodes, click the subscribe icon. Giving the bell icon a click will notify you the moment a new video drops and you’ll get my notifications of any last minute guest changes. Clips from this live stream will be released over the course of the next few weeks on the DialtheGate and Gateworld.net YouTube channels. As Kathleen is with me live we will be able to go ahead and get our moderating team who I believe is Anthony and Jeremy today in the YouTube chat. So if you’re on the YouTube chat with us live watching the show, submit your questions to Kathleen over there, and I will get them over to her. In the meantime, let’s go ahead and bring in Miss Kathleen Monroe [who] played Amanda Perry in Stargate Universe. Kathleen, again, welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

Kathleen Munroe
Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for your interest in the in the show, ongoing, I mean, it’s really cool to see a dedicated presence to this franchise.

David Read
You know, it went on for 17 seasons of television and something that is around that long… I’ve had this conversation with Dean Devlin who created the the movie with Roland Roland Emmerich. He wasn’t thrilled necessarily with the direction they took the show, but even he had to admit 17 seasons, something’s something’s working. What was your familiar with familiarity with Stargate before SGU?

Kathleen Munroe
So I have to admit, not robust. I was a Star Trek TNG fanatic. So that’s like my world around like this kind of content is like, so concentrated in that space. When I was a tenager kid, I went to conventions. I did the whole thing; I still have action figures in boxes and phasers and tricorders.

David Read
So you’re a sci-fi fan?

Kathleen Munroe
Oh, I mean, yeah. And especially that show. Stargate was something I sort of seen little bits and pieces. I was aware of it for sure. But I really dove in to get familiar before jumping in to join them on SGU.

David Read
What did you think of the storytelling idea of using a Stargate to journey to other planets? It’s up there with the Enterprise in terms of how to create, such as a strong adventure, you know; endless possibilities, you know. There are few other tools like that in sci fi I think.

Kathleen Munroe
Oh, totally. And I think it’s like a testament to the world building that we just buy it off the tele[vision]. It’s just so well established and the way they sort of build the world around that premise, is just really successful, I think. But yeah, it lights up the imagination, the way that the best sci fi stuff does, right? And you go like, “imagine if” and then the possibilities, like you said, are sort of endless. And I think what I really loved about SGU, in particular, is how human they made that question, you know?

David Read
For better or for worse.

Kathleen Munroe
Better for us, yeah. And I’m curious. I’m a little aware of the better or worse for viewers. I think, for me, that’s kind of what was the most compelling aspect about thinking about that technologies. Just how would that impact real people doing these missions or you know, the real relationships that exist around that premise?

David Read
Well, one of the things that I love about Stargate as opposed to Star Trek is that it’s set in the now. And you can have characters like quadriplegics be an integral part of the story. Like, we haven’t gotten past that situation yet. Where unless Worf’s getting, you know, hit by something, and not able to move his legs, you know, in the future those those problems aren’t there anymore. And your story, and it’s one of the things I want to talk to absolutely is about the character’s disability, and then suddenly getting to be in this body. It’s so compelling as an audience, because we can put ourselves there and see ourselves in those circumstances.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, I thought it was a really beautiful and complicated idea. And I think what the show did well, that appealed to me about the character was, it’s not saying like, “Her life is empty when she’s in the chair”. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. Her mental acuity is sort of what defines her and she has a personality and she has romance. And there’s this, you know, there’s a scene in the first episode that I did with David Blue, talking about, about how Amanda had this crush on Rush. And he kind of looks at her like askance, and she’s like, “What? You don’t think that people, you know, who are in wheelchairs can have romantic feelings for people?” And he’s like, “no, no, no, I’m just surprised that it’s him that you have romantic feelings [for].”

David Read
Right, she’s lived with him for weeks at this point.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah. So I think the way that that was handled, to not say, “hey, this is the dream fix that we can totally remove this obstacle for you and now your life suddenly has meaning”. Rather, they were saying “there’s meaning to your life, and now you’re experiencing life in a body in a way that you haven’t since…” I think they added that Amanda was maybe nine when she had her injury.

David Read
Nine years old, that’s right.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah. So I think it did that really nice job of not, not condemning the experience of of having an injury that would result in being in a chair the way that Amanda was. And also offers an opportunity to discover physicality, which was a really, really fun thing to play.

David Read
I want to talk about this so much more. I want to set this aside and go earlier into your history. Before I do that, who was your favorite TNG character?

Kathleen Munroe
Oh, okay. I hate to admit this because it’s a crush, but Riker like I was a Riker head to them. I met Jonathan Frakes once. It was actually around the time that I was on SGU. I met Jonathan Frakes at a convention so like, not even remotely in a work capacity, just in a pure fan capacity. I paid the money to get a photo with him. I have a photo signed by him with me in it. I think the things that kind of touch us when we’re young, never die, you know? I had the novelizations based on his relationship with Troi like the book called Imzadi that was this epic that I would dive into when I was a kid because he was just such an appealing character to me. I think if I went back and looked at it now, I might shake out differently, but the heart wants what it wants.

David Read
Of course. Absolutely. Have you seen Picard?

Kathleen Munroe
I have seen Picard yeah.

David Read
Wasn’t it good? What an ending!

Kathleen Munroe
Such a blast, yeah. I mean, I think yeah, Picard, as a character is just like one of the greatest of all time, I think.

David Read
Oh, yeah. What an honor to have a series named after you. And season three was just perfect. It was almost perfect. How old were you when you knew that you wanted to act and perform?

Kathleen Munroe
I think I was pretty young when I came to it. I was a really, really shy kid, like, really, really shy and really kind of nerdy kid. I went to a summer camp program that was like music, art and drama. The drama part, I played music, and I did you know, a little bit of art on my own and stuff. But those were sort of solitary. And then drama was the thing that when I realized you could be on stage and you could communicate and it didn’t have to be your words. You didn’t have to come up with things. Which I was always just really like, sort of sort of shy about. I felt, I felt really opened up like I felt a sense of freedom. And I was I think it was about five the first time I went to that.

David Read
Wow. You were young.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, yeah. And I remember they made all the five year olds, because it was a camp like five was the youngest age, and my hometown Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, and the five year olds all had to be trees. We didn’t have lines at that point, we just had trees. And I was like, “I’m gonna be the best darn tree” like, practiced at home. I just felt like there was a way to show up there that I wasn’t quite confident enough maybe to show up in my in my real life. So from there, I would always try to do little theater things here and there. And then it wasn’t until my teen years when I was doing a lot of like high school theater, community theater, anything I could kind of get my hands on in that realm, but also not living in a city where professional theater was, was a dominant industry. I was, you know, thinking about what I want to do with my life. And I was like, “Man, I just love this the best”, like, this is just what I…I credit, I have an uncle who’s a screenwriter. He came to see me in a play because my parents wanted his input on whether or not I stood any chance at all of making any money or if I would be, you know, broke and regret pursuing acting. And I remember he watched the play, he watched me in the play, I was about 16. And I was like, you know, “what do you think like, should I pursue acting? Should I pursue something else?” And he said, “pursue acting. Worst case scenario, you’ll read the news somewhere”. And I was like, “that’s good enough for me”.

David Read
Right? That’s just crazy. I am always surprised and I guess I shouldn’t be, at the how many introverts find a way to access themselves in front of an audience when they’re given dialogue and positions on the stage that someone else has already planned out. Like, the freedom of an introvert, and I do consider myself one at least partly, to just let go, and just be with a group and compose a story and step outside of yourself. I don’t know why it’s so freeing. But it really is.

Kathleen Munroe
I mean, you do this to right? You’re visible on this on this show, you put your thoughts and your self and you know, in some sense, creativity into these conversations. And yeah, I mean, I recognize that. Yeah, I can’t quite explain it. I think for me, it almost felt like permission, or something. It felt like permission to like, show up. And also, because the parameters were set, the pressure was just off a little bit. Yeah, well, personally, I would feel I’d kind of clam up. So yeah, it’s interesting. I think there is sometimes an assumption that actors are also really interested in, like, getting a ton of attention. And like being the, you know, the center of attention at a party, we’re being being extroverted. And that’s, that’s surely true. And I do appreciate, you know, people who engage in my work. I like the community around it, but I’m also like, I was asked once to emcee a wedding, and I was like, “Oh, my God”.

David Read
Yeah, I know that that may be a little bit too much. Also, you know, it’s not just a reading lines and following stage direction, but it’s also, you know, adding your flavor and your interpretation to it too. It’s also unlocking that part of our personalities that it’s like, you know, “you’re not just a robot out there, you’re adding yourself to a performance”. I think that helps us explore ourselves a little bit better in ways that, you know, we wouldn’t necessarily be more be comfortable doing.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, that’s a really nice way to put it actually. It does allow us to explore ourselves. I hadn’t like, articulated it that way to myself, but I think, yeah, you’re right on the money. It’s nice.

David Read
Can you tell me about a role that pushed you in ways that you didn’t expect? Or challenged you in ways or exhausted you in something that you walked away with going? “Wow, I did that?” No. Or something that something that touched you.

Kathleen Munroe
Beautiful question. I think the thing that comes to mind is actually it’s so funny how this stuff works. Like, you know, I’ve been lucky enough to be on like series for the full run of the series, or like, you know, do movies where I have like a substantial take. Like I’ve been really lucky to get to do a lot of different things. The thing that’s coming to mind is this just one episode of a show that I did, called Flashpoint. I was asked to come in and play a woman who has a degenerative brain disease, facing the end of her life. It just required like a really sensitive physicality and the shoot was only like, I don’t know, two weeks or something. And I remember Amy Jo Johnson was on the show (Pink Ranger) and she was so supportive and she’s been so lovely when she’s [inaudible] in her life. But I remember that Luke Kirby was the actor that I worked with on that show who’s on Marvelous Mrs. Maisel now. He’s a fantastic actor. So that job for me, I hadn’t ever been asked to do something that was that level of emotional consequences, physical consequences, she was planning her own sort of early death, because she wanted to avoid the deterioration. And then there was this like criminal aspect to it. And it was all within like the parameters of a week to week procedural. So it was the kind of thing that was like threading a needle. And I just remember, like, everyday, going home, falling asleep immediately, like, I just really, really feel like that was a job where I had the chance, and I was able to, just kind of leave it all on the floor.

David Read
So it didn’t follow you home?

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, you know… at first I think I was just kind of exhausted. But then afterwards, I remember having this little mini grief spell afterwards. Because I think the thing about physical roles, especially when there’s any kind of like, trauma or something which there was in this thing, and not trauma in like the, you know, in any kind of ichy sense. It was just like a real emotional trauma, and some physicality. Your brain knows it’s fake, but your body doesn’t know it’s fake. And so it can process through all I want in my brain and go like, “well, that’s work. I’m gonna go get like, you know, a burger with my pals or something.” But my body is still going, like, “we just went through something, something is not” …you know, and I think it was one of those jobs that involved like, a few days just like, weeping for 12 hours a day, which is not easy to do on the body. Because then the body’s like, “wait, we’re in we’re in a crisis state”, you know?

David Read
It reacts that way. It doesn’t know any better.

Kathleen Munroe
Exactly. And so there’s no amount of saying like, “hey, it’s fake, it’s just a job, it’s a job” that the body will understand in those moments. So, in that case, I did yeah, I remember just going in and having a really long bubble, because the only thing…

David Read
I do not understand how many actors can go through a dramatic performance of pretty much all of the kaleidoscope of ranges in a bigger show, you know, five, six, seven times a week or more, in a stage performance and still remain whole, insane, you know. It’s like when you have to you have to laugh you have to cry, you know. You’ve got some of these performances encapsulate a character over many years and many different trials. How do you do it without going nuts? Without your brain just saying, “you know, I can’t keep doing this”. You know, even the material may be amazing. But how do you physically do it?

Kathleen Munroe
It’s almost, it’s hard in a different way when the materials amazing. When the materials not great you need to like kind of like design an emotional interiority. You know what I mean? When the material is great, it kind of does the work for you. So you, you feel it really in a full way? Yeah, theater. I’ve been spending a lot of time in New York the last few years, and I see a lot of theater. And I marvel at those performers. I grew up doing theater, I hope you know I have this like fantasy for myself to like retire on the stage at like Stratford, Ontario. I haven’t done plays in a very long time. But the stamina is unbelievable. And I have a friend, my friend Casey Levy, I grew up with in Hamilton, and she is a major Broadway performer. She’s, you know, done the all the big heavy hitters in the musicals and all of this. I saw her do, she was Elphaba in Wicked, she’s really like a Broadway star. And that stamina to, and like you’re doing what seven shows a week? I don’t know, I don’t know how they do it. Because to be truthful, you really have to go there.

David Read
Especially with Elphaba, for example.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah. 100%. Even physically. I did a show, a series for Apple that I’m on. We shot last summer. And I play cop and my partner in the in the cop world has a limp. The character has a limp. So he would walk with a cane. And he’s like, “how do you do that for six months and not totally mess up your hip?” It’s like finding the ways to like really give to the work while not you know, wrecking our minds and hearts and bodies outside of it. And I think it’s a delicate balance. I know for me, it’s like, anytime I’ve had to really test my stamina. It’s a matter of just insulating outside.

David Read
You are talking about City on Fire, right?

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think to as an introvert, getting back to this, this is not something I think I’ve ever talked about publicly being an introvert.

David Read
It’s good. Exercise those demons.

Kathleen Munroe
I think as I get older, too, I’m more and more comfortable with just admitting it. I do kind of get jetlag. And I do love being social. Sometimes I’m a bit of a mix, but…

David Read
Those are ambiverts. But every once in a while you got to get away. More often than people think.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, and so recognizing that to really feel recharged and energized on certain jobs. I need to like limit social activities as well or do things to take care of myself in ways that might not be so pressing otherwise.

David Read
Tell us about getting Amanda Perry. SGU is my favorite of the three because it’s evolved the tools and the talent both in front of and behind the camera to create this beautiful show, a dark show, a more realistic show. And one of those aspects was your character. This Stephen Hawking molded genius who was placed in this horrible situation, when she was a child, but still found a way to, well…… one of the one of the biggest brains on Earth, probably. She’s dealing with hyperdrive engines for crying out loud. She’s got clearance by the State Department. So I mean, tell us about that role. Tell us about getting it.

Kathleen Munroe
So getting that role is actually probably my favorite audition story in my entire career. So I was I want to say I was like something like 26 [years old] or so when I got there. I was mid 20s when I got this role. I was auditioning for something else. I was auditioning for this show that was made by the, I forget what it’s called, it’s made by the guys who did Baywatch. It was a pilot. I don’t know if it actually went to series. But the guys who did Baywatch, it was a real Baywatchy show. It shot in Australia and I was auditioning for that. And I got right down to the end. And it was for this role that was like sexy, young, agile, beachy, you know, people on the beach, and she’s a marine biologist but surfs and swims. And before I went in for the final meeting, I got a note from the casting director and they said you know, just really come in, you’re gonna meet every the whole creative team for this show. Really come in, with like, youthful energy, agile energy, we want to see, we want to feel athletic, we want to see beach, we want to feel young 20s. You know? Really, like sexy, beachy thing, like, “Okay, sure”. So I went and I did the best thing I could. The other two girls I remember were like, perfect, like beautiful, like, you know, little cutoff shorts and bikini tops. And I head on like a flowy, you know, some kind of Palazzo pants or something. So it’s like, “I might be getting this a little bit wrong in my interpretation”. But I went and did the audition anyway, did my best version of like agile, athletic, sexy, beachy young. And the casting director chased me out of the room and he said, “Hey, so you’re not going to get this part. This is not going for you. But I was watching you thinking you just solved a problem for me because I have this other role that I think you’d be perfect for. Call your manager. Tell her it’s Amanda Perry, Stargate Universe”, and I was like, “okay, cool”. Like, “I’d love to go to Stargate”. My manager’s, like, I’m not going to get the beach thing, but Stargate, and she said, “that’s weird. Like, usually, if there’s a part that you’re right for, it would be on my radar. And this one’s not ringing a bell”. She’s like, “I’ll look into it”. And she called me back. And she’s like, “well, it wasn’t on my radar for you because the character is listed as a 40 year old quadriplegic”. And I was 26 trying to be athletic. And she was like, “we just didn’t think that you would, you would be the right fit for this.” And I was like, “well, let’s see, see if I get it”. And I went in, thought [about] it, and then later saw the casting director and I was like, “what did I do when I was trying to be the most agile, athletic, youthful beach girl that made you look at me and go no, but what you are, you know, what I see in you is this scientist in space?” And he was like, “I don’t know, there’s just something about you.” So I just found that to be such a funny thing where like, you never know what you’re projecting in these rooms that like I thought I was like really gunning for this one thing and diametrically opposed, like literally somebody who has not been in her body for, you know, 30 years or something, is what I what he ended up seeing when I was trying to do this, like, different things. So I’m just really glad that it went that way you know.

David Read
It’s just wild. I love the first episode, where she is freed of her physical form. And she’s on the ship, and doesn’t know what to do with her arms. You know, she’s like, she has them up in space here for a while. And she’s not used to the signals coming to her brain. What was that like to portray? How much research did you do? Did you talk to quadriplegics?

Kathleen Munroe
I didn’t, I didn’t, I didn’t have a ton of time. But I looked at videos, I looked at interviews, I looked at some doc content. So I was like, “okay, well, what is this?” This is like, “it’s the spinal cord.” So it’s not that like the there’s not that there are no muscles in here. It’s just that the signals aren’t there to make the move. And so it’s like, “okay, so what would it feel like?” Also, then she’s in a different body. So she’s in a body that hasn’t atrophied. But so like, you know, it was, it was Ming-Na, who I swapped with at that point, I believe in the first…..

David Read
yes, that first episode,

Kathleen Munroe
Julia for a second time. And I remember it being like, “Okay, so the muscles aren’t atrophy, because it’s someone else’s body. But my familiarity with moving them is still, you know, not really there. So, what would it feel like?” I just remember thinking, like, “I don’t think she’s aware of the weight of hands.” I think hands, like, you know, the weight of them feels like, things she’s getting used to, and even just like the dexterity of fingers, like the things that are more nuanced than like, you know, large limbs movements. I think she’s really enjoying, I think there’s some enjoyment and a little bit of fascination, but also, yeah, doesn’t really get that you can, you know, just drop your hands and that, there’s kind of like connection to the, the weight of arms and hands that feels new. And I remember a moment of eating a gooseberry or something. It was like a little like berry and pulling the, and it’s like, yeah, like that kind of like fine motor stuff. Like, what does that feel like and feeding yourself? And was it like to feel, you know, feel food, like just like, that kind of process? And I was even thinking, like, “to what extent can she feel like when she drinks something” like, “can she feel her body, is she aware?” So just trying to let everything be a discovery and to be really conscious, like trying to be consciously aware of like, what does it actually feel like in a body? What does it feel like to be in a body? It’s amazing. If you have any meditation practice or anything like that, you kind of know, like, you do body scans. And if you pay attention, you get surprised, like, there’s stuff that we’re not consciously aware of, in our own bodies all the time. So just trying to bring that sense of, of newness and discovery and like, pleasure, I think that was the thing I wanted to explore with her was just the pleasure of, like, touching and sipping, and you know, and then of course, it evolves. But um, but you know now.

David Read
It’s funny, because these people are in a dark place, old, cut off from humanity. You could describe it as purgatory, in some cases. The hell that some of those people were going through; no caffeine, no nicotine. And then a person comes in, who is in the same place as them and is free for the first time in fifteen, twenty years. And it’s like, putting yourself in that place and trying to understand, you know, that while she’s in this world, she’s free. That is a wild sci-fi idea. And the fact that when it’s over, she has to go back. This this body is on loan. And the first one couldn’t make it, Vanessa James, she couldn’t handle it.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah. Also the idea that accomplishing the mission means leaving this freedom, right like that, like, I’m here to do a job and once I have done the job, that’s it and so I want to do the job. Well, it’s like competing goals, right? Like I have the goal to like, excel at what I do and to solve this problem that needs solving and also solving that problem means I’m not needed anymore and that means I need to go back. I think that was a complicated thing to play. It’s interesting, even later on in the episodes that I was able to do, where, where Amanda becomes the consciousness in the, you know, where the physicality of that one is different because I was like, “okay, she’s not really in a body now”. She’s like, she runs down the hallway, because she’s like, a little bit more of an ethereal spark or something at that point. I wanted to make that a little bit different. But also, even there, even being able to be sitting playing chess with Rush, having this deep love with Rush, also, simultaneously scanning the systems to try to solve problems also investigating, like curiosities out in the universe, because the consciousness where it was was able to do multiple complex tasks at once. That she still would rather just be a human being; the limitations of just being on that, you know, kind of, junky ship in a body that functions was still sort of what she was hoping to be at that point. So yeah, it’s a really, it is a great sci fi premise for sure.

David Read
Tell me about working with Robert Carlyle, who called called Amanda Perry “Little Miss brilliant”.

Kathleen Munroe
He was so lovely. We got on really, really well from the get. And it’s one of those funny things too, because I know they initially wrote the character to be pitched a bit more closer to his age. And then, so when I got the script, it had some lines about like, oh, you know, we used to be, it wasn’t academy but was like, oh, you know, we used to try to solve problems together, bla bla bla. And I was like, “Oh, I wonder if that stuff’s going to change?” Because, you know, there’s an age difference. So like, just realistically thinking about, like, where we would have been at, you know, years ago, like, how is this going to work, but they didn’t change it. And it just kind of worked. Because he was able to offer me such a generous rapport that nothing felt contrived, like, it didn’t feel like I was like, pretending to be this, like, older, smarter scientist. It was just like, “Oh, these are two people who really relate on a human level, who have a past”, you know, that involves a lot of admiration for each other. And he just came in on equal footing, and I think I was kind of expecting to come in, and be like, a little bit like, you know, looking up to him or something, or like, even just feeling like a younger kid beside him. So I think I don’t know what our age gap was, but pretty substantial. And I went in and felt exactly on the same plane. And I think, you know, in all the ways I did not feel like we were competing for….

David Read
Rush was an interesting nut to crack because as an audience, a lot of people didn’t care for the character. How do I want to put this? This is one of the most complicated characters in all of the franchise. There was a there was a level of respect that he demanded, but he recognized super intelligence in others. And I think that in looking at Amanda Perry, I think he was in love with her brain, and could just could come to her with problems, she can come to him with problems, and they respected each other’s intelligence. And also there’s, there’s eros there, that’s present, obviously. And so their brains connected, you know, in terms of solving problems. There was a kinship there that was that was irrespective of age.

Kathleen Munroe
Yes. And also of circumstance. I really believe she felt with him because Russia is such a complex character and he’s not warm and fuzzy. I think you’re totally right. The currency he operates in is intelligence. Like, I think he really that that sort of, you know, yes, point of interest. And so I think she felt and I think she was right to feel that he was maybe one of the only people who immediately didn’t condescend her because she had a disability, didn’t treat her differently, or they have that dialogue I thought was so beautiful. “Oh, I thought you pitied me”. He says, “I thought you pitied me” when we were talking about like, when they used to solve problems together and like they when they first knew each other, and she says, you know, “did you have any idea how I felt about you?” And he said, “I thought you pitied me”, because he’s assuming that she’s sort of smarter than he is. And she’s like, well, “I thought you pitied me” because you know of her circumstances. And I think it was really born. I think their connection was born out of this idea that he’s one person that just sees the full human of her because he sees her brain, and he’s not seeing the chair and he’s not seeing, you know, the breathing tube or the, you know, the inabilities. He’s only seeing the full human that is contained in her, in her brain, and her heart and all that stuff. And I think that puts them, it kind of opens him up a little bit, because there’s someone who’s able to get him on that level. And inspire him a little bit on that level, I think. And for her, it’s like someone who’s finally treating her like, just a human, you know, and not that, you know, I think there are probably other examples of that, but he’s such an odd guy that I don’t think the pleasantries of, you know, like, they’re the kind of, yeah, interpersonal conventions are all that important to him. But what’s important to him is like, Well, what do you have up here?

David Read
It’s interesting, because at that point in the series, we had seen him as someone who was threatened by intelligence, like with Eli. Him and Eli took a long time to grow to some level of respect with one another. He also he always kept them at arm’s length, he solved the master problem of getting them on the ship, and Rush was resentful of that. But with Amanda, it was just different. And it added this level of complexity immediately to Rush because he wasn’t like that with everyone. He was just like that. Some people you know, it’s like, when we meet people, there’s something about you, that just pisses me off, you know, and you’re just projecting something. It’s like, you know what, “I see who you are as a human being, but in terms of the personality, I’m good to stay over here”, you know, and it’s just how it is, with some people. You’re not going to like everyone, but then you meet someone and there’s a connection on some level, often, regardless of age, and it’s something that’s beautiful, and reminds us of how awesome it is to be human. Regardless of our circumstances. With [the] bodies we’re in, you know, sometimes we just connect with someone. And it was those two, it was beautiful, it was great.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah. I think so much of that is Bobby, because he was just open. When you come in for I think, when I first went on, I think I only, can’t remember if I had even more than one episode. I think it was just one episode which I was so happy about. But you know, when you go in for one episode, like, it’s not it’s not all the time that that there’s that much openness, generosity, willingness to kind of bring someone in and really play, you know, but he was really, really, really generous that way.

David Read
It was such a shock. And it was one of the questions of the show. When you’re in the stones, when you’re using the stones and in someone else’s body, if one of them dies, what happens to the other? The show answered that question in season two, when Simeon played by the amazing Robert Knepper kills Ginn while Amanda is in her body. That’s how the episode ends and in the next episode, we find out now they both died, Ginn died in Amanda’s body and Amanda got shot while she was in Ginn’s body. At that point did you know you were going to come back later in the season? Did they reveal the the larger arc for the season at that point to you? And how did you feel about those scenes? Because we don’t see it on screen, it happens off screen.

Kathleen Munroe
Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I remember that.

David Read
And the look on your face when the doors close. Oh, man. That’s so good. It’s like, “what’s going on here?”, you know.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah. And Robert is like, Robert Knepper is just, you know, so convincing. And a really nice guy from what I remember. Yeah, I honestly don’t remember but I don’t think I knew I’d be back. I like really, really loved Amanda Perry. I just like, as a character, I just loved playing her, I loved the relationship with Rush, I love the discovery. I felt very tender toward that character. So it made me sad when she died. It was interesting to come back because when she comes back it’s her, but it’s not, it is her but then there’s this this sort of like, I don’t want to say she’s, it’s not nefarious, but she’s kind of is doing this thing that’s keeping Rush captive a little bit. And I think it’s like it was an interesting way to go with the character. And of course, I don’t think she had she had horrible intentions there at all, but it’s still kind of beccomes this problem. And I really in that way got to kind of think about her. Man, like the loneliness, this is gonna sound really heavy, but like, wondering about the loneliness of dying. If you could be conscious after death and recognize that you’re no longer on Earth, well not on Earth in this case, but you know you’re no longer in a body.

David Read
And what’s happening to you, you’re displaced? Where is she? What’s happened? It was one of the cooler mysteries of the show. What is consciousness?

Kathleen Munroe
Yes what is consciousness? Also the idea of her just being kind of alone in it. She wants company which feels very human and I think it was just such an interesting way to think about technology. Having her consciousness uploaded into technology and then being able to be embodied in a simulation. And then also just this idea of the humaneness in that case didn’t die because the humaneness wants connection, the humaneness wants company and wants to be embodied and wants all of that stuff. So I think the kind of grief around that was just, I remember, it just kind of struck me. I kept being like, she’s smart, she loves rather Rush, you know, she doesn’t really want to keep him captive here. There are a couple of tricks she plays, right? Like, you know, the thing that the ship is in duress when it’s not. She’s trying to buy time to figure this thing out. But she’s not entirely honest with him in that episode. I think that’s because she’s maybe embarrassed about the parameters she said, or that we love each other. I think in this reality that maybe he doesn’t love her the way she imagines. And that’s painful. But I think it feels like, a little bit unlike her to be behaving in this way, based on what I knew of her. I think that’s because her, her heart is so open and a little bit breaking, and she’s lonely and in love, and wants this so badly that she can’t let it go as easily as maybe we expect this like hyper intelligent person to be able to do.

David Read
We are human at the end of the day, you know, despite our brain power. I can’t help but you know, see her as a very tragic character in her arc because she went from someone who was unable to feel to being transferred into a place where she could feel nothing. Where she can make no physical contact with someone whatsoever; she was ethereal. To getting him finally, in a place where she could have some kind of human contact with with someone who she really cared about, and then was all pulled away. You know, that’s, that’s, that’s sad.

Kathleen Munroe
It is sad and I think to that final kind of chapter for her, also was not inhabiting anyone else’s body. And I think that’s really important too, because there’s always this….and they deal with it a little bit in the episodes that I did, the ethics of romance in someone else’s body. Like if I often use someone else’s body and I’m going to kiss someone that’s like…..

David Read
…..or making love, you know, they dealt with that a little bit.

Kathleen Munroe
A little bit yeah. There’s an ethical question there. And I think the amount of freedom in that last episode, the last little chapter for her, is so substantial because it’s a her autonomy, you know, she’s just her agency. But yeah, it is very sad. It was very sad to play. I remember being very sad.

David Read
Yeah. It’s one of the regrets of the show ending when it did because we know that they would have you know, pulled them out of protected memory and tried some more things with with those characters at some point later on. And I think that your character was going to be integral into the mystery of what was going on with the ship and its mission. What do you what do you think Destiny was was constructed for?, Had you thought about it?

Kathleen Munroe
I think back then I……

David Read
As a sci fi fan, I’m curious for your input.

Kathleen Munroe
I’d have to go back and watch the whole thing again. What do you think?

David Read
They have made contact with a signal that’s embedded in the fabric of the universe itself, and have sent this ship out to discover it. What I was curious about and this leans into my theory of how this determines the direction of my theory. Was the ship gathering information as it traveled, or was it heading to some kind of boundary to then figure out what’s going on? And I don’t know. I have gone around this so many times, I think that it was going to be, knowing Brad and Rob, I think it was going to be something profound and not just like, “oh, that’s, that’s all it is”, you know. I think it would have been one of those larger “what ifs?” to the meaning of life, you know. Was it Destiny that had created reality, you know, and it’s just going and finding like, go to the edge of the cosmos or whatever? Although there’s no outer boundary. And seeing a mirror of itself there and then creating reality itself or starting over again. I don’t know. I suspect it was gonna be wild.

Kathleen Munroe
Have they ever given, you know, hints?

David Read
David Blue knows. He knows some? Brad Wright once told me that ultimately, or at least one of the next parts, would have been Stargate Command and Atlantis, pooling their talents together to save Destiny. But they haven’t explored or hinted at the the nature of her mission which, you know, always leads me to hope that something will come out later on. That’s wild, you know, what could be out there? You know, it’s reality defining stuff.

Kathleen Munroe
Totally. Totally.

David Read
I have some fan questions for you. Philippe Canat – how was your experience on the show? Were there any particular moments that you remember fondly?

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, I loved my time on the show. I really loved my time on the show. I think the things that I remember, a couple things I remember that in the last episode, I think it was last episode, one of the last two, Helen Shaver directed. She’s amazing. We took so much time on the relationship stuff. And for a show that was so much about the sci-fi and whatever, I just remember thinking like, “this feels like like acting camp” or something like it was a really, really beautiful moment to work with Robert and with her. I remember really, really well, the first scene in the first episode, the scene with with Robert in the still where we take the little shot. And cheers was, it was something Scottish like “up your kilt” or something. I kept laughing every time you’d say it because I just gotta kick out of it.

David Read
It’s one of those images that gets into your head. It’s like “Okay, I gotta, I gotta perform now. I can’t.”

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, I definitely had the giggles. So I do remember that and trying to like, bring it in. Yeah, but it was like, it was really, really a nice time on that show. Like, really, really a treat the whole thing.

David Read
He also wanted to know what it felt like when you heard the news about the show being canceled.

Kathleen Munroe
I actually really love your your idea that I might have been back. I had come to really love the show and I really, really love the people on the show. I was sad to not be able to see more of it and to not, you know, to have that kind of end sooner than I thought it could have. I didn’t assume I’d be back. And I think that’s maybe my limits of my imagination, not getting into the sci-fi potentials as much as I mean.

David Read
This is a continuing story, Kathleen,

Kathleen Munroe
I died, then I lived, then I died. How many can I die? I definitely wanted to prove that I could have come back more and more. So personally it was more just my feelings about the show in general and the people on it that I was I was like, yeah, quite sad. It is that thing of like what you’re you’re asking about the ship’s mission like when when a story isn’t finished. We want that ending you know and so and I think there were so many….there’s a lot more that could have been discovered.

David Read
El Lee wanted to know which of these episodes were your favorite? You came in for Sabotage, came back for The Greater Good and then Hope and Seizure.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, I think it would be probably a toss up between the first and the last because they both were complex in different ways. And the first was so much about the discovery and finding that connection with with Rush and finding the character which is always like a really really fun and interesting process. The discovery involved in that was just so much fun and it’s fun to play discovery while also discovering an experience myself right? It was the first time I got there, I jumped into it, you know, so everything was new. The last episode, just the emotional complexity and the the connection, kind of seeing that connection through with Rush. And there’s also something, and I can’t remember what episode it’s in, and I’m honestly like, was it even on screen? But I sit in the….I do, I sit in the Captain’s chair on the bridge, I believe.

David Read
I am trying to remember that. It’s quite possible. Yeah.

Kathleen Munroe
All I know is that there was a point when I got to sit in the chair on set. And I was like “oh my god, I’m here”, because of my deep Star Trek love, it just felt like such a trip to be like, you know, looking at this set and stuff.

David Read
There’s an exchange between Ming Na and the actor who plays Young, Telford, excuse me Young. And he turns, Ming Na sits down and she’s in the chair. Or I can’t forget the situation, but they’re arguing over the Captain’s chair. He said “what am I? Captain Kirk? Sit down”, you know, “seat right there”. I love how the show recognized that it didn’t take itself too seriously and it allowed the audience to play into the humor of that. Louis Ferreira, his character and Ming Na, they were great.

Kathleen Munroe
Yes. And you were right to about it being important. Like the time setting. The setting of the show in time is really cool, too. Because those references play right. You know, like, we’re not talking about a future where nobody knows who Captain Kirk is like we’re talking about life.

David Read
The here and now. The Time Prophet – do you find as a Canadian actress, you have to go to the US to find work? Does that Canada/US dynamic play for you as as a performer?

Kathleen Munroe
I feel like one of the really, really lucky ones because I have an American mom and a Canadian dad. So I’ve two passports. And I’ve spent a lot of my life….I’m Canadian, obviously, and grew up [here]. I love my hometown, very proud from where I’m from. Also, my mom’s family is from Buffalo so we spent a lot of time like, back and forth. And I would say I just am lucky to not have to choose because I think there’s some really exciting stuff happening in Canada. We shot this in Canada, although I was booked on this in the States. I don’t think you have to leave to get work. I think anything that helps expand opportunities, like any kind of extra pots, you can put your hand in, can only bring a higher volume of opportunity. Right? I feel really, really lucky to be able to have pretty, like, from a citizenship status point, like a really easy access point to both industries. Yeah, and I think it’s changing now. It used to be when we would have to audition in person all the time, it really made sense to be in LA sometimes to get the FaceTime with the people who make these decisions. Nowadays, I think less so because everything’s remote.

David Read
Yeah, there are advantages to that. I fear our continued loss of face to face contact. I really think that it’s hurting us. At the same time, you know, as long as we recognize that these tools that we’re using, they are tools, you know, they’re they’re not designed to replace anything. They’re designed to augment. If we can keep our head on our shoulders, I think we’ll be okay.

Kathleen Munroe
Let’s bring that into the AI conversation as well.

David Read
Have you played with any of it?

Kathleen Munroe
A little bit, a little bit. I think you like the way you just described even Zoom I feel like is the sensible way to think about AI as well, that it’s, you know, let’s use this as a tool to not replace things but enhance what we can.

David Read
Absolutely. Jeremy Heiner wanted to know in 2021, you wrote a piece for the Toronto Star entitled “It’s time to Redefine Queer Cinema.” Can you talk more about that? And is anything changed in the industry since you wrote it?

Kathleen Munroe
Man, thank you for that question.

David Read
Jeremy’s a digger, he’ll go and find stuff.

Kathleen Munroe
I appreciate that Jeremy. This was something….I am a screenwriter as well, and I have some projects in development as a director, done a little bit of directing. I’m sort of newer to it. I think, my take on this sort of issue of narrative authority, is that no one should say that people can’t tell other people’s stories. That people are incapable of telling other people’s stories, et cetera, et cetera. I don’t think the issue is one of like, “can people make interesting work about a group of people or a person or whatever, that they have no connection to?” I think we’ve seen a lot of examples of like, “yes they can”. I think what I feel, though, is that for a very, very, very long time, right, you kind of the, like duration of the film industry. There’s been an over representation of, in the case that I was talking about, like, straight perspective on queer content. And I’m not saying that, like, look, [inaudible], you know, this is one of my favorite movies, I love the favorite, there’s some, there’s some stuff that I think, is really beautiful work made by straight people that involve queer characters. So I’m not saying it’s impossible, what I’m saying is, it’s tough sometimes to, you know, be a queer person, seeing queer narratives and not relate and feel like this is how people are getting educated on me and my community. And the analogy that I use sometimes with people is, imagine you wanted to make a story about your family, and you love your family, and you know your family, you know all the nuances of your family, and you’re trying to make this movie about your family. And then all the most powerful, famous people in the world, start making movies about your family and getting your mom wrong and getting your dad wrong and getting you wrong, but they have a lot more money and power. It hurts a little bit to see things that don’t connect if the care is not being taken, or if the authority isn’t there. So it’s not a point about what’s possible or impossible. I think at a certain point, it would be great if we can get to the place where enough people have been given the opportunity to tell their own stories, and maybe even other stories. I’m interested in seeing, you know, more diverse filmmakers making action movies with white stars who are straight, you know, like, I’m interested in shifting the perspective, like if we can do it entirely in one direction and by that I mean, in the case that I was arguing, like, you know, if it’s been almost entirely, you know, in terms of large movies, straight people making gay movies, let’s have some gay people making straight movies for a little bit. And then let’s talk about maybe, you know, we can we can sort of start opening that conversation up a little bit.

David Read
I love looking at, like Neil Patrick Harris, you know, some of his most successful roles are as a straight man, you know, so he can go backwards and forwards. I wish that we could all like open ourselves in all the different parts of the industry in action as well.

Kathleen Munroe
I can’t help but wonder sometimes, because I don’t know that he was he was publicly out when he got cast in that. I asked myself that question. I hope he would still would have gotten cast. But you know, from what I see, sometimes, I do wonder, and I think. It’s not to say that, I was talking about filmmaking, but it’s not to say that straight actors can’t play gay characters in a phenomenal, insane, beautiful way. I’m just saying, you know, I don’t hear people offering Tig Notaro the role of the wife on a sitcom.

David Read
That’s true. That’s true. But I mean, have you seen like, Gone Girl, you know, to keep on Neil for a second year. He’s brilliant in that. And he’s, he plays his trick. I think behind the scenes, you know, in terms of the filmmaking, I think that that will be, it should continue to grow. And I think that’s one of those things moving forward. I think being aware of that, is I think, the first step in getting there.

Kathleen Munroe
That’s the thing because I think it’s really easy for people to feel attacked, and I get it, it’s easy for people to go like, “Oh, you’re telling me, I can’t make something? You’re telling me I can’t do something” Absolutely not. I’m just saying, like, I’ll speak for myself, I’m really more interested in seeing a wider variety of voices that lens and keep making yourself but also, you know, maybe we can just widen our scope a little bit because I’m, you know, first and foremost, a film lover. And so, what could be bad about opening doors to a wider range of perspectives? I think it’s only going to make everybody’s work better.

David Read
And if there’s an audience for it, they’ll come and see it.

Kathleen Munroe
100% Yeah. 100 Yeah.

David Read
Melissa Smith – how did Kathleen like her time and role in Haven? She’s a lovely actress. I enjoy her work.

Kathleen Munroe
Oh, thank you and thank you for asking about Haven. Haven was a blast. Haven was a blast. That’s another one where I thought it was going in for like an episode or something. And I ended up going back and had a really interesting arc on that like the Audrey [inaudible] thing. Emily is the sweetest, she was one of those people that when I met her, you know, she’s so beautiful. She’s the lead of the show and ever getting like, Oh, she’s just the most down to earth normal person in the world. And I had like Lucas was really great. And Eric like, it was just such a fun, fun show. And shooting in Nova Scotia. I shot a series in Nova Scotia for four years. I did Haven and it is like the crews out there, the views out there…….I mean, everything about being out there was just a joy.

David Read
Wow, it was one of those places I’ve always wanted to go. Just wide open space.

Kathleen Munroe
That craggy Atlantic Ocean.

David Read
Do you have time for a couple more? Okay. The Misadventures of a Little Wolf – “Could you under…..” Okay. Okay. Let me let me back this up. So, Alaina Huffman, she’s across from the table with Bobby Carlyle. And they’re getting ready to do their first screen read for SGU. And Bobby’s very low and soft and his accent is so thick, and she’s thinking to herself, “oh my God, we are screwed. No one is going to understand this actor”. And then they start going through the material and he rises up and he’s right there. And she’s like, “Oh, my God”. So The Misadventures of a Little Wolf – “Could you understand a word Bobby was saying, being normally Scottish?”

Kathleen Munroe
That’s so funny. Okay, I do remember he sounded a little more Scottish offset than on? Yeah, for sure. I have the benefit of my lineage is mostly Irish, but my dad’s side has a lot of Scottish on it. So we’ve been to Scotland. My dad loves Scottish culture, loves the accent. So I’ve been at least like I’d been primed enough in it to like, I’d say catch almost 70%, 75% maybe, of what he was saying. I loved him from the day I saw him in Trainspotting, like years ago. Because Trainspotting, Full Monty, you know, talk about needing to decipher language, but it’s just I think there’s something about him too. That’s so like, present and empathetic, that you know, you get the idea of and if you don’t get all the words.

David Read
We haven’t talked about your music. So if you, once you finish watching the show, or during the show, if you want to click over, scroll down in the description, and you’ll see a link to Spotify for Kathleen’s music, she’s she can be found under Monroe. Tell me about this part of yourself, expressing this part of yourself.

Kathleen Munroe
Thanks for asking. Yeah, I am. It’s, I’ve always played music my whole life. Like I started, I don’t remember not playing music. I started playing piano when I was like, three or something. And it just feels like it’s a part of my creative life that I don’t really commodify like, I now and then like will license something to a project often for free sometimes, you know, for something nominal, just you know, for formality, but I don’t really like try to make money off music. And I think that’s kept it in this a different like, there was minute when it first came out with with my first album where I worked with a label. And very quickly I was like, “I don’t think this is for me”, like “this is not, there’s not what I want to do with this part of my creative life”, I want it to be sort of protected a little bit and not have anyone…..to be pure about it, to not really worry if like, people think it’s good, or if like, a label thinks it’s sellable, or like I just want to be able to make it and the joy for me is in making it. And because I’ve always made music, there was a certain point where I was like, you know, I don’t know if it’s, if it’s actually really done until it’s out in the world. And when it’s out in the world we kind of move on, you know, so the joy for me is like the writing and the playing and the playing with other people and the collaborating around production and stuff like that. And, and so that’s where I really, I mean, I feel so lucky that I get to work in an industry where I get time off, you know, where we get like, [inaudible] where we work and then you know, we’re lucky there’s moments of time between jobs where you know, you can kind of devote attention to other things and so it’s been just a real…. music’s been a real like companion of mine I’d say for my whole life.

David Read
I’ve been listening to your stuff for a couple of days now and you remind me a lot of Billie Holiday. There’s a moodiness, there is a swing, you know, kind of almost a swagger to the music. I invite anyone to to go and check your stuff out. I’ve had this conversation with a couple of actors, you know, there are some parts of your creative life that you monetize to pay the bills. And there are other parts over here. That “no, no I’m not going to compromise on this thing.” You know, this is how I want it to be, and everyone else can go fly a kite.

Kathleen Munroe
Totally. And that I will be the first one to say is a luxury. It is a luxury to get income from one source, especially a creative source. I just did my taxes recently, and every year I do my taxes I go, I make money, you know, saying other people’s words on TV, it’s wild That in and of itself just feels like a tremendous amount of luck. So to have the luxury of time and income from somewhere else, to be able to have a hobby that’s purely creative……You can do it in all kinds of ways, right? It doesn’t do it for a lot, then certainly I’ve had times in my life where I’m making music for $0 on, you know, recording into my own computer to just do it.

David Read
You are nourishing your soul.

Kathleen Munroe
Exactly. And that’s the point. That’s what it is, it’s like, we find a way to get these creative things stoked. No matter what. And then you know, when when there is like this, the space allowed by having a job that pays the bills are about time for those hobbies, it’s…….

David Read
it’s important. And it’s important that we have those aspects, you know, in our life as creative people. People ask me, “why don’t you try to monetize this show?” I get YouTube’s revenue, it pays for most of my cell phone bill every month. That’s not why I do it. I want it to be free for the world. And you know, for the future, for people who discover the franchise. It’s so important to me, and I’m so thankful that you have sat down to take this hour plus with me to share your stories, and to archive them for the oral history project. It means a lot that you’ve come here and spent time today with me.

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, it means a lot to me that you’re doing this project and that you keep doing it from such a you know, like a from a real genuine place in your heart. It’s it’s a joy to talk to you. Thank you so much.

David Read
Thank you. Yeah, it’s it’s a great show. And I think I think we’ll see more of it now that Amazon is cooking something up. We’ll see what it is. Are you open to Amanda Perry coming back?

Kathleen Munroe
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Who do I need to call?

David Read
We’ll see. You know. Thank you so much, Kathleen. It’s been a privilege to have you and to share in your thoughts on these subjects and your creativity and again, thank you for playing that role so masterfully.

Kathleen Munroe
It’s been a pleasure.

David Read
You take care of yourself. I’m gonna go ahead and close things out on this end. Bye bye. Kathleen Munroe, everyone, Amanda Perry in Stargate Universe. Thank you so much for tuning in today. This passion project is continuing to grow. We’re just we’re clicking along here. She was so kind to reach out to me a few days ago and say, “Yeah”. I messaged her agent a while back and she she reached out and said, “Yeah, I’m here. I’m interested”. So we made it happen. Thank you to my moderating team for making this episode possible; to Jeremy and to Antony. Thanks to my Producer Linda “GateGabber” Furey and Frederick Marcoux at ConceptsWeb, he keeps our website up and running. When we have more interviews on the slates, I will reach out to you guys and we’ll get that going. I’m still in LA working on a project and so my dates are still up in the air. So Wormhole X-Tremists is on hold although those girls are making some great memes so go ahead and check us out on the social channels. I think that’s all that we have here. Lockwatcher – maybe Kathleen could watch an SGU episode with us Wormhole X-Tremists? We will see about that but it’s gonna be a few years before we get to SGU. I definitely want to have her along for her first episode as well. We’re getting some cast commentary. I will reach out to her about that. My name is David Read for Dial the Gate. Thank you all for tuning in and we’ll see you on the other side.